Charles welcomes Ben Daughtry and Jonathan Palmer of Love Jones to discuss the band’s return with a new six-song album, The Greatest Show on Earth (released February 2026), and their decades of blending lounge, soul, pop, and storytelling. They swap formative concert stories—both cite Van Halen at age 14—plus memories of Ted Nugent, Metallica’s Black Album tour, GWAR, Nine-Inch Nails, The Rolling Stones at a small NYC show, and more, emphasizing the power of live performance. The conversation traces Love Jones’ formation in Louisville (1990), move to LA (1992), and weekly Largo residency where Debra Winger and David Bowie sat in the audience and Tool's crew became regulars. They also cover their unexpected appearance on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon celebrating the 25th anniversary of their debut album Here's to the Losers. They describe writing new, longer compositions during COVID-era jam sessions with key collaborators and talk about their touring ambitions and their partnership with Whiskey Thief Distillery.
In this episode of Seeing Them Live, Charles sits down with Ben Daughtry and Jonathan Palmer of Love Jones — the Louisville-born, LA-based band that has been crafting their unique blend of lounge, soul, pop, and sharp-witted storytelling for over three decades. The conversation kicks off with a shared love of live music, as both Ben and Jonathan trace their concert-going roots back to the same unlikely starting point: Van Halen. Ben recalls sneaking into a show at 14, way too young to be there, watching a then-unknown Van Halen open for Black Sabbath and feeling like "a bomb going off." Jonathan recounts his own Van Halen baptism at Freedom Hall in Louisville on the Women and Children First Invasion Tour — complete with $7.50 festival seating and his mother taking notes in the stands.
From there, the episode becomes a wide-ranging tour through decades of live music obsession. The guys swap stories about Ted Nugent crowd surges, jumping on stage with GWAR in New Orleans, playing congas with Tool at an early Lollapalooza, and watching Rage Against the Machine move 60,000 people. Jonathan shares privileged industry moments — seeing The Rolling Stones at a 600-capacity room in New York alongside Daniel Craig, Rachel Weisz, and Questlove, and catching Nine-Inch Nails at The Troubadour when they felt "too big for the building." The conversation is fueled by genuine enthusiasm, with each story triggering another in a kind of joyful avalanche of rock and roll memory.
The second half of the episode turns to the band's own story — from their residency at Largo on Fairfax, where David Bowie once sat quietly in a booth and Tool's crew became regulars, to their unexpected appearance on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon celebrating the 25th anniversary of their debut album Here's to the Losers. Charles and the guys dig into the Cocktail Nation moment of the '90s, the making of their new album The Greatest Show on Earth — written during COVID jam sessions in a Louisville warehouse with crickets chirping and trains passing — and the cinematic, Gil Evans-influenced sound that ties its six expansive tracks together. The episode closes with the band expressing hope to get back on the road, a shout-out to their partnership with Whiskey Thief Distillery, and a tease of possible activity around the 30th anniversary of the film Swingers, on whose soundtrack Love Jones famously appeared.
BANDS: Adele, B-52s, Beastie Boys, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Black Sabbath, Chicago, Combustible Edison, Devo, Earth Wind & Fire, Fishbone, Foo Fighters, GWAR, James Brown, Led Zeppelin, Love Jones, Metallica, Metric, Molly Hatchet, Morphine, Nine Inch Nails, Oasis, Rage Against the Machine, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rolling Stones, Sea and Cake, Steely Dan, Supertramp, Ted Nugent, The Cars, The Cocktails, Tool, Tortoise, Van Halen, ZZ Top.
VENUES: Comiskey Park (Chicago), Freedom Hall (Louisville), Largo (Los Angeles), Largo on Fairfax (Los Angeles), Lollapalooza, Metro (Chicago), Racket (New York City), Rose Bowl (Pasadena), Soldier Field (Chicago), The Troubadour (Los Angeles).
[00:00:24] Jonathan: Debra Winger came to see us one time. We had Oscar-winning actors and film producers, and there was one night that I looked out in the audience and it was a Friday night at Largo on Fairfax, and David Bowie was sitting in a booth halfway back at the back of the room.
[00:00:41] Charles: Today's guests are Ben Daughtry and Jonathan Palmer from the band Love Jones. After more than three decades of blending lounge, soul, pop, and sharp-witted storytelling into a sound all their own, the band is back with a brand-new album, The Greatest Show on Earth. [00:01:00] The record captures everything longtime fans love about Love Jones: big personality, rich musicianship, and humor, while still delivering genuinely great songs. Ben and Jonathan, welcome to Seeing Them Live.
[00:01:14] Jonathan: Thanks so much. Great to be here.
[00:01:16] Charles: Yeah, I'd also like to thank Mike at Earshot Media, for setting up this interview. Yeah, I thought we could just kinda do a back and forth, guys. You know, we'll talk about your concerts first and then I'd like to do a history of the band, some of your recordings, and of course, the new album. We'll talk about that as well.
[00:01:33] So, yeah, it was kinda funny, Ben and Jonathan, your first concerts are both Van Halen. So, I thought that was kinda, interesting. So Ben, you saw them earlier on as an opening act.
[00:01:45] Ben: Yeah. Yeah. And I was surprised too that that was Jonathan's choice. I didn't know. When I saw that, I thought that was great. I did see them as an opening act. It was, in fact, not the first concert I'd been to, but one of the very, very earliest. Was way too young to be there. It wasn't [00:02:00] that far from my house.
[00:02:01] I think we got... I'm trying to remember how we got there. We might have taken a lo- the public transportation. Look, I didn't even remember the venue. I was 14 years old. But I knew that I'd heard Van Halen on the radio, and my friends and I were like, "What the hell is that? That's the greatest thing I've ever heard."
[00:02:18] Like, it just blew everybody's mind. I gotta see these guys. And so we went down there, and we were way too young to be in there. You know, it's the '70s, everybody's smoking pot and drinking, and they're, you know, denim bell-bottom trousers and vests and everything. And I had, like, kind of working on shoulder-length hair. I wanted to have it, but it hadn't grown out yet.
[00:02:40] So we were trying to be cool, and we weren't. And, the thing that I remember most about it was that Black Sabbath was absolutely horrible. That we left before they even finished. Van Halen was... I mean, they were probably 20 and 21 years old at the time, and they sounded like a bomb [00:03:00] going off. Like, it still resonates in my ears. I can hear it like it was yesterday. They hit the stage, and it was like a machine, and I was completely floored in every aspect, by their showmanship, by their musical virtuosity, by, David Lee Roth's bon vivant personality on stage.
[00:03:18] I just couldn't believe a guy would get out there and tear it up like that in this sort of vaudeville, razzle-dazzle kind of way. Was so great. And then Black Sabbath came on, and Ozzy could barely make it through a song. They seemed old, they seemed terrible, and we probably watched, like, three or four songs and left. Maybe one of my, you know, early, uh, beer drinking experiences and was probably on my way to throw up on the side of the building.
[00:03:44] Charles: Yeah, that was like his last show with the band and then they, I guess, fired him for his drug and alcohol issues.
[00:03:52] Ben: I'm not surprised. Yeah, terrible.
[00:03:53] Charles: So yeah, that sounds like maybe they weren't at the top of their game at all at that point.
[00:03:58] Ben: No, any way, shape, or form.
[00:03:59] Charles: [00:04:00] But yeah, then Jonathan, you saw them, uh, what was it? 1980. I'd written down like, this Invasion Tour at Freedom Hall.
[00:04:08] Jonathan: They called it The Invasion, the tour, and it was for Women and Children First, which remains my favorite Van Halen album. I feel like it is the most reckless and wild-sounding collection of songs they did, and the tour was similarly chaotic and super powerful live show. I was 14 years old. I had not been to any shows. I grew up, you know, listening to a lot of Motown and Philly soul and there were a lot of you know, show tunes in the household growing up and, a lot of folk
[00:04:40] Ben: music
[00:04:41] Jonathan: and '60s music and singer-songwriter stuff. And when I started hearing heavy music, I immediately gravitated towards it, both, on the more commercial, you know, British metal side with Zeppelin and Sabbath and everything that came after leading up to Van Halen, as well as on the punk and [00:05:00] hardcore side with the British punk stuff that then started to influence American punk in the late '70s.
[00:05:06] And so when Van Halen came, in Louisville, we didn't get a lot of cool music coming through town. We got kind of what was, spoon-fed to us by the corporate, you know, record, industry machine. And what that was typically tended to be that very right down Main Street kinda hard rock. And Van Halen was like, of all the stuff that came through town, that was probably the one band that came on a recurring basis that was unique and cool, and they kinda scratched both itches. Like, they were commercially viable, but also kinda had an edge to them and a danger. And it it really just, blew my mind to be in this big room at Freedom Hall, which is still there, but that was, like, the big concert arena venue of our youth in Louisville, Kentucky.
[00:05:53] And, seeing the musicianship of the guys and Dave's, just insane charisma. I just [00:06:00] remember, he would... And I wasn't, you know, I, I didn't drink when I was young, but seeing him, like, swig from a, a whiskey bottle repeatedly through the show, I was like, "Oh, that guy's really, he can really put it away." And of course, years later, I found out that that was a giant-ass jug of iced tea.
[00:06:16] Ben: I was there. I was at that. I saw Van Halen every time they came to Louisville, and the thing I remember about that show... Wasn't that the one where Michael Anthony, like, there was a big bomb or something that came out, and when they played In the Cradle Will Rock, his keyboard was inside of this, like, bomb casing or something?
[00:06:34] Jonathan: I think that might have been the next tour on the Fair Warning. I think that might have been the Fair Warning tour.
[00:06:40] Ben: I had them all confabulated in my brain.
[00:06:43] Jonathan: At any rate, it was a good kickoff and, you know, I, I bought tickets when they went on sale. I think I have the stub. I think it's $7.50 was the, uh, ticket price. It was a festival seating, so this was before The Who's fateful night in Cincinnati that led to essentially [00:07:00] the end of festival seating for, you know, years and years.
[00:07:04] So we got a nice seat, like, midway up in the stands, and my friend and I, who were accompanied by my mom, who decided she wanted to go also, and she bought her own ticket unbeknownst to me, and kind of, you know, when we were pulling up as opposed to getting dropped off, she's like, "I'm, I'm coming in, you guys." And I remember her, like, taking notes during the show. Like, she was just-- thought some of Dave's remarks were particularly funny, and she became a Van Halen fan after that, which is pretty hilarious.
[00:07:31] Charles: Wow. Yeah, I actually, a long time ago I interviewed my mom, and it's called The Concert Mom. And yeah, moms are always a big part of taking their kids to concerts it seems. And she took me and my friends to my first concerts and all these kids and like it, it is kinda crazy 'cause like you're talking about this Freedom Hall place, I mean that's nearly, I looked at capacity, it was like 17,000 people and, we went to some big shows like at Soldier Field [00:08:00] and Comiskey, the old Comiskey Park, White Sox Park.
[00:08:03] Yeah, the moms out there, we owe a huge debt to them, for live music 'cause they're usually the ones taking their kids to shows. You know, every once in a while you get a dad in there but it, yeah, it's usually the, mom it seems, so.
[00:08:16] Jonathan: Yeah, my moms are cooler. My mom just passed away a couple of months ago, and we had a memorial for her recently and she was just such a music fan, and she put that love of music into my life really early on. So it wasn't like... I wasn't like, "Oh, my mom's coming." I was like, "Yeah, my mom's coming. She loves music. It's gonna be cool."
[00:08:34] The next show we went to, though, I was like, "Mom, you're dropping me off for this one." And that was, four months after that I went to see The Cars at the same venue, I think with the same friend, on the Panorama Tour, which was also just amazing. Yeah, that was when I went to, like... I made a point of, like, I'm going down on the floor, 'cause it was open floor down on the, floor of Freedom Hall. And I think I got, like, 10 feet from stage, and I, I was like, "Man, Elliot [00:09:00] Easton is, like, playing all these solos right to me." So that, kind of was, like, more, probably more impactful than the Van Halen show in a lot of ways, cause it was just, it was... I got really close and that felt like, oh, I can really connect with music and performers.
[00:09:14] Ben: Yeah, at his mother's memorial, his brother told the story, which I don't remember, that when the Beastie Boys did their first big tour, everybody was reporting that there was gonna be crime and teenage drinking and all this stuff. So his brother's like, "I have to be there," you know? We all were there.
[00:09:32] We all loved it. And he said that after the show, and I remember this, I was back at the soundboard with his mom and Angelo from Fishbone, who had opened the show, having a conversation. But I don't remember a moment of that.
[00:09:47] Charles: Wow. Sorry to hear about your mom. She sounds like a really cool person and, yeah, you owe a lot to her, I guess.
[00:09:52] Jonathan: Marianne Palmer, one of the greats. Thanks, Charles.
[00:09:55] Charles: Well, I thought we could move into these categories and we call it your [00:10:00] best concert, but I think, Ben, maybe you coined the term most important concert, and I was thinking maybe we should change the category 'cause best is always tough. But under bests or most important maybe, you guys listed a few and I thought we could just go back and forth real quick. Ben, you were almost crushed at a Ted Nugent concert apparently.
[00:10:20] Ben: Same place, Freedom Hall.
[00:10:22] Charles: Okay.
[00:10:23] Ben: Probably 16 years old. I really wanted to get to the front. I wanted to see the Nuge in all of his glory. This was before he went all Red State. You know, we all loved Cat Scratch Fever. Everybody says in Louisville, you wanna be in Louisville where the world ends, because everything hits here 10 years late. And Nugent, in the late '70s, early '80s, was big amongst me and my friends, and the sorta Hesher group. And I just remember going there, same thing, ticket's $8. Of course I'm gonna go see Ted Nugent.
[00:10:55] And we're like, "Let's get up as close as we can," just like Jonathan was saying. I want to be [00:11:00] inches from the Motor City Madman. He comes on, and the entire crowd surges forward. We all go down like a human wave, crushed. I thought it was hilarious. I actually thought it was really fun, but a lot of people were really scared. And Ted had to actually get on the mic and be like, "Come on, man. Everybody be cool. Back up," you know. And we did, and everybody still was just incredibly crushed after that. But it was one of my first experience. And also being crushed up against other young women of that age wasn't totally unpleasant.
[00:11:34] Charles: I would listen to his Double Live Gonzo album, a million times I think I listened to that album, way back when it came out. Yeah, I was a big Ted Nugent fan as well, but never did see him. Jonathan, you have this Metallica show, on they're Doing the Black Album tour also at Freedom Hall, 1992 I guess it was, March 19th I have, as one of your most or best, most important concerts.
[00:11:59] Jonathan: Yeah. [00:12:00] I mean, also that was a special night. I was there with my brother. I went with my brother to quite a few shows, but that one, I think it was on or around his birthday. And, uh, I think I invited him kinda last minute, or I got the tickets very last minute. I had interviewed Kirk for a newspaper article in the Courier-Journal, Louisville's newspaper. I used to write for them about music. I was a journalism major at Syracuse, and I wrote, and I still write, in addition to my work in the band and as a music executive over the years.
[00:12:29] But, it was an exciting moment because I think the record had gone, like top five on the charts, like that week. It was shortly after the album came out, and they were sort of having this ascendant moment of becoming this big commercial proposition. Pretty sure it's like a diamond status album. I think it sold over 10 million. You know, that was probably the biggest selling metal album of all time, I'm gonna say.
[00:12:53] Ben: It might be
[00:12:54] Charles: Yeah, it's up there.
[00:12:55] Jonathan: I think It is. it's either that or Back in Black, I think. But, it felt like a shift and, [00:13:00] and the crowd was, was there for it, and they showed this really fun, like, you know, sort of tour video before the show that kind of put their personalities out there in a big way, and it was really, really exciting.
[00:13:12] It was a fun, fun night. And They're one of my favorite bands of all time. And I've, despite, or maybe because of, I, I have no idea at this point in terms of like my tastes and proclivities. But, uh, I think that they've influenced me as a performer and a songwriter in some strange ways, and just the way they keep at it is super inspiring to me.
[00:13:31] And, I went to see them a couple of years ago up in Seattle on the 72 Seasons tour that they're doing at this endless tour they're on right now, and it just felt like they bring their show into town and do these like art installations and charitable initiatives with their charity foundation, and they really kinda activate, communities.
[00:13:51] And the joy and love that they bring to live performance has always been like super inspiring to me, which is, it kind of belies the sort of [00:14:00] menace and heaviness and you know, dark undertones of their music. And, I've always liked that sort of duality of the happy sad. The you know, melancholy underlying the joy, and that's the range of human experience, and that was encapsulated in that show, and, God bless Metallica.
[00:14:16] Charles: Yeah, they never, from what I understand, never phone it in. Like, when they came to Chicago, they played two different sets, each night they were here, and then they always play a song that's specific to the city that they're in. And, that's incredible, to have that kind of variation.
[00:14:33] And I mean, the fans obviously love that, you know? Especially, like, a diehard fan, you'd go to both shows, right? Cause you'd see different songs performed and I read this cool book, by this author Ben Apatoff, who's been on the podcast. It's, Metallica: The $24.95 Book, and it's a very thorough book, and he goes into, like, all that kind of stuff. And I learned a ton about Metallica even though I've never seen them live, so they sound [00:15:00] awesome live.
[00:15:00] Ben: Yeah.
[00:15:01] Charles: So yeah, maybe a couple more guys. Ben, back to you. You jumping on stage with GWAR, the band GWAR, and getting... I don't know, did you get arrested as a result of jumping on stage, or did that happen afterwards?
[00:15:13] Ben: Almost got arrested. I ran. Uh, we were in New Orleans for Mardi Gras, just down there partying our balls off, ridiculous. Gwar happened to be in town. On acid, I'm like, " Let's go see them." This tiny little venue, you know, summer, sweltering hot. And I'm like, "I wanna get up there. I wanna be part of the show."
[00:15:35] And my friends were like, "No, that's not a good idea." And I'm like, "Well, I don't give a fuck. I'm gonna do it anyway." And I jumped up there and they pushed me off, and then they kicked me out of the club, and then I ran back in, did it again. And then you know, the doorman's like, "We're calling the fucking cops. You better get out of here." And, I hadn't done that before. Actually, it was funny, in Louisville, Molly Hatchet, when I was in high school, and they had these, WLRS [00:16:00] 102 was the local station, The Walrus, and they had dollar and two concerts. And I really wasn't into Molly Hatchet, but I was like, "For $1.02, I'm going."
[00:16:08] And, I did the same thing. Took a bunch of Benzos I think I stole out of my best friend's mom's medicine cabinet, drank with them, somehow ended up on stage with Molly Hatchet. Same thing, escorted out of the building. But I think that that is just like there's a side of me that, like, kinda wants to be up there, be in front of other people.
[00:16:27] Jonathan: Well, you figured it out. You figured out how to do it the right way.
[00:16:31] Ben: Right. Now I can do it at my own shows. I don't need to sneak on other people's.
[00:16:35] Jonathan: I mean, I might like to kick you out sometimes when we're on stage together, but, you know, I hold back. Couldn't do it without you.
[00:16:41] Charles: Well, and, you guys would have maybe a little bit of sympathy if somebody from the crowd jumps up on the stage, and you'd understand, you know?
[00:16:49] Ben: If our show doesn't end up with a lot of the audience on stage, then we've done something wrong. There's generally people up there from the audience. Probably it's all because of these early memories.
[00:16:59] Jonathan: I [00:17:00] love when bands do that, when it feels real. Like, I'm a big Metric fan, and they've done that tons of times over the years. They just bring like, you know, there are like 50 people on stage at the end of the set, and Emily and the band really manage it really well, and it becomes like a party.
[00:17:14] Charles: Yeah, I remember, uh, I saw this band at the Metro in Chicago. They were called the Royal Crescent Mob.
[00:17:20] Ben: Oh, we're big RC Mob fans.
[00:17:23] Charles: And they did that. I'd seen them a couple times, so I knew they would do that. And, I got on stage with them at, you know, probably the last song. My girlfriend at the time was up there, and her shoe fell off.
[00:17:34] And she's like, "Oh my God, I lost my..." And, I'm watching the shoe get kicked all over the stage. I'm trying to retrieve a shoe during this melee. It was kind of funny. But yeah, that band, they were awesome
[00:17:46] Ben: Oh, they, were so great. And we had this little punk rock club here in Louisville, and everybody played there. A lot of people, Red Hot Chili Peppers, you name it. But in this tiny 200-person room.
[00:17:57] Jonathan: Everybody played there before they got big.
[00:17:59] Ben: [00:18:00] Yeah, and Royal Crescent Mob came all the time. My bands played with them. We worshiped them. They were just so good. Great live band. One of the best.
[00:18:07] Charles: Let's see. We got some cool concerts here, Jonathan, Rolling Stones at Racket in New York City. It's like a small venue.
[00:18:16] Jonathan: Yeah. So, it's a little bit of cheating because I worked with The Rolling Stones on the publishing side over the past few years when I was an executive with BMG who looked after their publishing. And I happened to be in New York when they were putting the last album out, Hackney Diamonds, and I had a friend who said, "Are you in town for the Stones thing?" And I was like, " What Stones thing?" And they said, "Well, they're doing this underplay tomorrow night."
[00:18:43] And I immediately sent a note to management and I was like, " Hey, I'm just finding out about this. Is there a possibility that maybe there's a spot for me to be privileged enough to join in?" And man, oh man, that room is, you know, what is it? A 600 cap room, I [00:19:00] think. And we were-- A colleague and I, who I got to bring a guest, and I brought one of my licensing, team members with me, and we ended up pressed up against the balcony at the front of the balcony, which had about a 50-foot, probably less. It was about 40 feet, I think, between my nose and the front of the stage, and it was like essentially being in, like, a living room watching The Stones play.
[00:19:24] And it was an eight-song set. It was like a showcase-length set, but, they brought lady Gaga out for the feature that she did on the album, and it was mind-blowing. And just looking down on the crowd, it was like I was watching the crowd and, the whole room was like... "Oh, there's, Daniel Craig and Rachel Weisz and, Chris Rock, and oh, there's Jimmy Fallon. Oh, and Questlove's sitting next to him, of course." And it was like a who's who of, New York celebrity, and me somehow.
[00:19:52] So I felt very privileged to be in the room for that, and, got to see The Stones a couple of times on that tour as well, which [00:20:00] it's just remarkable how they've continued. I, I mean, you could make a strong case that they're better than they've ever been as a live band. It's rare to see a band that gets the scale of playing in a football stadium across with also somehow seeming accessible and real and human. And I think I've really only seen that a couple of times, I would say, at that size over the past, like, 20 years.
[00:20:25] And the other one was recently, I got to see Oasis with my friend, Morgan Neville last year, a filmmaker friend of ours who invited me to see them at the Rose Bowl, and that just blew my mind. I'd worked also on the publishing side with Oasis' music years ago at Sony and saw them a few times. And the kind of dark secret, you w- you went to see them with me, didn't you, at the bowl?
[00:20:48] Ben: Yeah, we are at the rink or the bowl.
[00:20:50] Jonathan: Yeah, and the thing with Oasis that nobody really admits is, back in the day, they were okay live, but they were kind of a mess usually. And this show was so [00:21:00] powerful and joyful and, again, band that's been coaxed back into being out there again, somehow pulls it together and is better than they've ever been. And I think that kinda stuff is inspiring to Ben and me and the rest of the band to see.
[00:21:15] You know, we're getting up there, and now we can continue to play music. It's a gift, and it's also, like, I think we're better at it now. We write more efficiently and more freely, I think, and we're less constrained by thinking about, like, oh, what's gonna be popular, or what's gonna connect? It's more like, no, what do we wanna do, and what are we good at? So, that's sort of where we went with this new record.
[00:21:39] Ben: You know what I'll do a sidebar. I'll never forget the night before Adele had broke, you took me to a showcase at Largo. And I mean, the new Largo, what is it? 150 seats.
[00:21:49] Jonathan: 200 seats.
[00:21:51] Ben: 200 seats. She's belting. I mean, just stunning. And then Jonathan and I hung outside with her while she smoked a cigarette and drank a [00:22:00] glass of wine and talked to her, you know, about her career and where she was going and stuff. And, you know, a couple months later, she's as big as Barbra Streisand or Lady Gaga or whatever. And I'll never forget that night as just being like, wow, to see somebody in that tiny room, like you saw The Stones before their huge stadium act was pretty amazing.
[00:22:19] Charles: Yeah. We'll talk about the new album, but it you guys opened up your songs as compared to Here's To The Losers, as far as the length of the songs, they're longer. There is a wide variety of sounds on the new album, which we'll chat about in a minute. Jonathan, you had another one about nine Inch Nails, kind of the same performance?
[00:22:38] Jonathan: Yeah. again, it's a little bit of cheating 'cause these are artists that I had the privilege of working with as, you know, a licensing executive, and I was at Columbia Records at the time, and they had just signed with the label, and they were doing a series of shows in LA at small clubs, and I got to see them, I think, like, three times that week, the best one being at The [00:23:00] Troubadour, which is, again, under 600 capacity room. I think I was on the balcony once again, on the front of the balcony, and it felt, like Ben said earlier about Van Halen, it felt like I was in a room with a bomb going off. You know, it was beautifully mixed. The sound was amazing. But it was just like, "This band is too big to play this space."
[00:23:20] And, like, the structure of the building is going to just give way. But it was a privilege, and also just really inspiring. And Josh Freese. Well, no, that was after Josh left. It was Ilan Rubin, who now has left again and Josh Freese is back. It's hard to track the back and forth of the Nine Inch Nails, Foo Fighter drumming multiverse. But Ilan, I think, had just started playing with them, and I don't think I'd ever seen him play. I think he was pretty young at the time. And man, what a powerful player. And just the rest of the band was insanely inspiring.
[00:23:52] Ben: It's funny thinking about all these things. 'Cause live music has been such a big part of our lives. I mean, when you start talking about these concerts, it's triggering one [00:24:00] after the other. I remember seeing the B-52s in Lexington, and they made them stop because they thought the balcony was gonna come down from the dancing. Like, their energy was so potent that it almost couldn't be pulled in. People were just going crazy. And it's like one after the other. If I start thinking about all of these, seeing Morphine at the Troubadour was sublime at the height of their fame. You know? Like, that was the coolest rock and roll thing I think I've ever seen.
[00:24:28] I remembered another one too real quick, and then we should get going. Tool were friends, and before they had really gotten crazy huge, they asked if I would play congas with them at a very early version of Lollapalooza. Rage Against the Machine played that day right before they had broke, and I'll never forget being backstage and watching 60,000 people go like...
[00:24:53] Charles: Up and down, yeah. I saw Nine Inch Nails, cause like you were saying, Ben, it triggers all these other [00:25:00] shows, at the first Lollapalooza, and that was just insane. I mean, they were definitely one of the highlights and just, like, pretty much destroyed their instruments and it was total mayhem. It was unbelievable.
[00:25:14] Ben: They bring it, yeah.
[00:25:15] Charles: So you've got more concerts listed here, but I, I thought maybe in the interest of time we could, maybe talk about your album and the band because there's stories there too. We've shifted to concert stories sort of, but you guys as a band and Ben, you just mentioned Tool, and we'll get to that in just a second.
[00:25:34] But, just real quick background. I guess you guys formed in 1990 in Louisville and 92 you moved out to LA and you began this residency at the Largo nightclub, which you've mentioned here, and yeah, the capacity I have written down is like 280 people, and I was just wondering, 'cause that was kind of like a jump off point for you guys, right, as far as things happening at that club. Like how did that [00:26:00] residency come about? Like, did you guys just show up in LA and say, " hey"?
[00:26:04] Ben: We were in Louisville and we were drawing pretty substantial crowds, like as many people as they could pack into these rooms, and we kinda knew we were onto something. And this friend of ours, Cindy Lam, she was a music journalist. She was like, "If you guys go out to LA, there's this club. I'm gonna see if I can get you booked in there. They're gonna love you."
[00:26:22] And we went out there for a one-off, and the guy, Mark, who owns it, who had ultimately became our manager, was like, " If you guys wanna come out here, I'll give you a weekly gig." And so we kinda knew that. We're like, "All right, is everybody ready to pack up and move to Beverly?" You know, and we, did it.
[00:26:38] And that gig became like a thing where like our shtick was so unique at that point that it was attracting a lot of show business types, actors, musicians. I mean, you could see people as diverse as David Bowie to who were some of the people who showed up?
[00:26:53] Jonathan: Debra Winger came to see us one time. We had Oscar-winning actors and film producers, [00:27:00] and there was one night that I looked out in the audience and it was a Friday night at Largo on Fairfax, and David Bowie was sitting in a booth halfway back at the back of the room, so.
[00:27:09] Charles: Wow.
[00:27:10] Ben: Yeah, and, people like Tool, people were coming 'cause we were kinda doing this stand-up but also playing our music, and we didn't look like anybody else at the time. We were kind of inspired by Devo and ZZ Top and other people to present in matching costumes. But we had this sort of punk rock energy, this Don Rickles energy that we would just take into any room. And inspired by Van Halen and Metallica and all these other people, we're like, "We are bringing it every night." You know, we just loved performing, and we had a blast.
[00:27:37] And I think it translated, and the thing we always talk about, too, is John Brian was in residence there as well, who's gone on to be a big composer and collaborator, and he would get up there and play with us, you know, and so we we were like, "Okay, John's up here. We're here," and he ended up playing on our first two albums. Quite a scene up there. So it was kind of our launch into the Los Angeles music community.
[00:27:59] Charles: Yeah, cause I [00:28:00] was reading that whole scene or that music, you know, it's dubbed the Cocktail Nation, where it's like '50s, '60s vibes.
[00:28:07] Ben: There was a confluence of bands who were kind of mining the past a little bit at the same time we were. We didn't know about it. So we had kind of dug into our love of classic music of that era and presented in that way. Little did we know there were other bands kind of doing the same thing at the same time. And, I wish that I wasn't so, you know, punk rock at the time, because we got lumped in with the Cocktail Nation.
[00:28:31] Jonathan: Well, there was also like a thing that was happening too, like with some reissues that were going on. The Capitol Records had been putting out a series called Ultra Lounge that was like revisiting all the stuff from their back catalog and like Yma Sumac and Louis Prima and all this kind of Vegasy stuff, but, uh, also exotica and tiki and novelty records like Mrs. Miller. And it was just all this sort of throwback stuff.
[00:28:56] And it's like that thing where everything old is new again. I feel [00:29:00] like we're seeing it right now with Zoomers and young people are really into '90s stuff, which I think is hilarious 'cause I'm like, " it wasn't that great, kids." And I feel like, you know, there was that period in the '70s and '80s when people were really into the ' 50s. Like Sha Na Na had their revival kind of moment, and Happy Days and all that stuff. And it was similar in the '90s.
[00:29:21] I think there was like a very specific little moment of like, let's look back at that you know, '60s, Space Age, kind of pre-Vietnam era. You know, it is interesting 'cause in some ways it's sort of the last period of cultural innocence in a way. And we, kind of leaned in on it, I think purposefully because we were coming from having been in like punk and hardcore world, a lot of us, and we were like, it just didn't feel authentic to what we wanted to do in terms of songwriting or creation. And it felt like the actual punk rock thing to do was kind of go against the grain and do that.
[00:29:57] And so there were other bands, like there was combustible [00:30:00] Edison out of Boston, who were people who'd been, Michael Cudahy and Liz and the rest of that band had all been in indie rock and punk bands in the Boston scene, and they started doing kind of, like, Martin Denny-esque tiki stuff. And then there was Big Bad Voodoo Daddy here in Los Angeles that was, doing, like, jump swing. And we were more specifically, like, really into the Louis Prima thing. We were like, "Let's do the small, Vegas lounge kind of vibe, wild times in a small room with a lot of drinks."
[00:30:31] And, you know, we had, like, signature cocktails and matching suits. And so it was a little moment, and I think it coalesced with the movie Swingers, which, kind of embodied that sort of subculture of, you know, young people who were like, " We're gonna learn how to swing dance, and we're gonna drink a fancy martini and, you know, wear vintage clothing." And, it never really fully turned into anything that was commercially viable, which is fine. It was just a fun moment of, sort of [00:31:00] weirdly counterculture expression that was a counterculture of being square in a way, which is kind of funny.
[00:31:07] Ben: Yeah, I was trying to think of the band that we played with a lot in Louisville who ended up being Sea and Cake and everything.
[00:31:12] Jonathan: Oh, The Cocktails.
[00:31:14] Ben: The Cocktails.
[00:31:15] Jonathan: Yeah, and they have their DNA in like Tortoise and Sea and Cake and, they were a really cool bunch of guys who just toured around the Midwest. They kind of faded away into other bands after we had worked with them a few times playing live.
[00:31:29] Ben: But they were part of that too.
[00:31:31] Jonathan: Yeah, they were definitely part of that.
[00:31:33] Ben: There was a lot of groups who were kind of mining that area. And we were resentful because we're like, "Well, we're more than that. We contain multitudes. We don't wanna be labeled," you know? But whatever, we probably should have cashed in on that.
[00:31:49] Hi, this is Charles Zona, and we're glad you are enjoying this episode of Seeing Them Live. If you would like to be a guest on the podcast, please fill out the form on our website at [00:32:00] seeingthemlive.com. Also, if you like the show, please give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
[00:32:09] And now, back to the show
[00:32:16] Charles: I love you know, your sound. I used to DJ at this bar, small bar in our neighborhood and stuff, and every once in a while, somebody would come up and say, Oh, who was that that you were playing?" And, the song on the new album, it's the first song, "Looking for Diamonds," that's one of those songs.
[00:32:32] If I put that on at a party or whatever, somebody's gonna come up and say, " Who's that?" You know? " What song is that?" And the whole vibe on Here's to the Losers, you'd mentioned Swingers, and you guys had a song on that soundtrack, Paid for Lovin? Right?
[00:32:47] Yeah. I love putting that kind of music on and just kinda chilling out, you know, sorta thing, and I was telling Ben before we got on recording here that you guys you were on the Jimmy Fallon show, and it was throwing me for a loop. I was on your [00:33:00] website. That's, love-jones.com, and you know, you have those videos there. And he's holding up the Here's to the Losers album, which was released in, what, '93. But Jimmy Fallon wasn't on then, so I'm like, yeah, it's throwing me for a loop.
[00:33:14] Jonathan: He, he wasn't even on SNL at that point.
[00:33:17] Charles: Yeah, right, right.
[00:33:19] Jonathan: He was like a young improv actor, and he used to come see us before he was famous.
[00:33:24] Charles: Yeah, so he loved your music. He'd come see you guys, and then his wife, as the story goes, and you guys feel free to jump in and tell it, requested like in, was it like 2019 or something, if you could record, like singing happy birthday to him or something as a nice little message, and you guys decided to record an actual original song for his birthday.
[00:33:45] Jonathan: Yeah, that was 2018. So yeah, we created a piece of original music for him and put in a bunch of references to things that were particular to him, like his friends, his dog's name, his deep hatred of mayonnaise.
[00:33:57] Ben: His Ring of Uldir.
[00:33:59] Jonathan: Yeah. [00:34:00] So it was fun. And then, I think they did a limited pressing vinyl for his birthday party and gave it out to friends and, you know, that's it. It was like a little closed offering. We have the recording. We don't have any plans to do anything with it, but, it was very special. And then a few months later, they came back to us and asked us if we wanted to be on the show to celebrate the 25th anniversary of our first album, Here's to the Losers, came out in...
[00:34:24] Charles: '93. Yeah.
[00:34:25] Jonathan: '93, so we ended up on the show in January of 2019, so it was a little after the 25th anniversary.
[00:34:33] Ben: And I didn't believe it I was like, " Bullshit, they're not gonna have us on the show. We have nothing to shill. We got nothing going on." You know? And he was like, "No, they're gonna do it." And I was like, "They're gonna have Beyoncé on there. Why are they gonna have a 30-year-old band that nobody's ever heard of on there?" I was as shocked as anybody when we got there, you know, that they had recreated our first album jacket. I was blown away by the whole experience. It was so fun.
[00:34:58] Charles: Yeah, the set he [00:35:00] created, or they created, the woman on the cover is in a lounge at a bar, and that was, like, in front of the stage. And then, you guys play the first song, and then the second song you invite him, since he's such a big fan, he sings along with you guys, and it was... I mean, that, that's really cool.
[00:35:18] Jonathan: That's once in a lifetime stuff for sure
[00:35:20] Charles: Yeah.
[00:35:21] Ben: Well, you know what was fun? We were sound checking, and two things are memorable to me. The guys who run the sound, who are incredible, were like, "You're not using any backing tracks, right? Nothing?" We're like, "No, we just play live." And he's like, "That's crazy. Everybody who shows up here uses backing tracks." Then we're playing, Jimmy comes in and he's like, " Play Ohio River. Play that, play that, play that." We started playing it. He jumps up there and starts singing, and he's like, "We're gonna do two songs. I was only gonna do one, but now we're gonna do two, and I'm gonna sing with you." And I was like, "Great. Even better."
[00:35:51] So, that was stunning. He came to me backstage and he was like, " You don't understand. You're like one of my favorite bands." And I'm like, "No, you're..." And he's like, "Name any song on any of [00:36:00] your records." And I named one, and he just starts singing it. And I was like, "Wow, you really are a fan."
[00:36:04] Jonathan: Yeah.
[00:36:05] Charles: Yeah, and you could tell in the video, I mean, he's totally into it. And yeah, you're right. The, bands would just play one song, but then you guys play the second song with him and, that's really cool.
[00:36:15] Jonathan: Yeah, so it's funny. Whenever I see him going off about a musician or talking excitedly to someone about their new film, I don't know if people get how real that is. He's like an enthusiast. He loves talking about the things he loves, and it was really special getting to spend time with him and to do the show, and it's kind of carried us into this, new period of creativity in a way.
[00:36:39] Charles: Yeah, you have this new album out, The Greatest Show on Earth, and it was released in February, right? February of 2026?
[00:36:47] Jonathan: Yeah.
[00:36:47] Charles: And, there's six songs on it. Like I said, in general, they're longer in length than the tracks on Here's To The Losers. But, Looking For Diamonds, has just a really cool sound to it. [00:37:00] Again, hard to describe. I struggle sometimes with like, genres and labeling things, but that and Twilight On Sand Hill. That's another cool song, right? Like, you could just, like, sit back and listen to that and that's an instrumental, that, last song.
[00:37:13] Jonathan: Very cinematic.
[00:37:15] Charles: Yeah, you know, you hear elements of other, bands like Steely Dan, on I believe When We Are Free and, also some Chicago sort of, early Chicago, but, you know, not, quite like it. It sounds a little different, but you can definitely feel it, you know? So I, you guys started, guess, what, writing these songs in 2019, or 2020 during COVID? Is that correct?
[00:37:38] Ben: Yeah. It was, an interesting thing 'cause, I think the thing that's weird about being in a band like this is it never stopped. Like, it just kind of is always there in the background. We'll get together, we'll write music. There's no real plan for success or anything. We just keep doing it, ' cause we love it and it's fun. And during COVID, I had gotten a new guitar and an amp from Barry, and I just like the way it sounds. That's where [00:38:00] that instrumental came. So I brought that stuff to him, and then we were like, "Okay, let's just start making some music together." Barry has an old warehouse that's pretty charming. It's surrounded by old antiques and all kinds of...
[00:38:12] Jonathan: Barry is our bass player, just to clarify. I don't think we've said that.
[00:38:16] Ben: Yeah. And it was like, "Well, we can play here and we can practice here." We started inviting all our collaborators in, and during these long jam sessions, you know, where you had to wear a mask, we'd have the doors all open and everybody's drinking and it's in the South, and there was a lot of romance around it to me. There's a train that runs right by. Crickets are chirping. People are wandering in. It would turn into a house party half the time where we'd, like, just be playing for people who wandered in.
[00:38:43] Jonathan: Everybody eventually got COVID anyways.
[00:38:46] Ben: Yeah, it didn't matter. And so we started to formulate these songs, but they became like these little mini, symphonic... I always cite Gil Evans as an influence on this, as these sort of long [00:39:00] compositions, in the way that some jazz is. It's not like, you know, oh, you play the head, then everybody solos for half an hour, and you come back to the head. They're like little pieces that reflect each other, and they became these long compositions, but they're still rooted in pop and melody, and that's where the Steely Dan thing comes in.
[00:39:18] Because, like, when we wrote these, the initial response was like, "Well, it's only six songs." And we're like, "Yeah, but so is Gaucho." Like Gaucho, Asia. So we're like, "Well, that's fine," You know, we're not under any sort of commercial restrictions. We just wanna do what we wanna do. And so that was also a challenge for Jonathan 'cause he lives in LA, and we're like, "Okay, well, let's try to sing over these really long songs." Let's try to see where they get," you know? But that became a really fun challenge where it's four pieces into it, there's a new melody that sort of reflects the original one and background.
[00:39:52] Yeah, it was a really, really fun... It reminds me of Brian Wilson a little bit too, and songs like Good Vibrations that go on and on and on and have different pieces, [00:40:00] you know? Supertramp did it, a lot of people. What, Radar Love is, like, six minutes long or something.
[00:40:06] Charles: Exactly. And, you mentioned, like, these jam sessions you guys would have, you do capture that on a lot of these songs. The vocals kind of cut out on parts, and you let the band play, and then you come back.
[00:40:17] Ben: Chicago's a good point of influence 'cause, you know, Chicago, Earth, Wind & Fire, James Brown. The idea of having a large-scale unit to work from opens up everything sonically.
[00:40:29] Jonathan: That's a good moment to also give a specific shout-out to our amazing horn section, the Bad Ass Brass, who we started working with around the time of the Fallon engagement to kind of make that a more special show, and they've become part and parcel of everything we do now. They are members of our creative team, and their horn arrangements and charts, and in some cases their songwriting contributions in a couple of instances have been invaluable to getting this going again.
[00:40:57] Ben: And we have these other collaborators too. Like, [00:41:00] Bob Ramsey is a great keyboardist here, and he's played with Leon Russell and all these different people. He's kind of a legend around this town. He plays at the ballgames, the organ. And he comes in and just astounds us with his concepts. So a lot of the keyboards, and Todd Hildreth too. There's There's a lot of really, really... You know, they always say surround yourself with people more talented than you are. That's what happened on this record.
[00:41:20] Charles: Yeah, the musicianship is really impressive to listen to and where each song goes and, they do sound all different, yet. There's a commonality to them. But, yeah, so you guys, you got the album out. Are you thinking of going on the road at all?
[00:41:36] Ben: Well, the problem is we really want to. We all are grownups. We all have full-time jobs. Like 11 of us at the top number, so even coordinating that many people to do one show is tough. And we do. We play occasionally, but you know, we played New York a little while ago. We played here, we play here, and the dream would be is that, you know, doing this press and having the new record out, is that we get the opportunity to [00:42:00] come to Chicago, that we get the opportunity to go to Atlanta, to, you know, Nashville, Louisville, and get out there and play some more.
[00:42:06] We're actively scheming to see if we can get ourselves back out there. LA, of course, you know, we wanna play in LA too. So, I think it's all underway. If there's a demand and we can get the resources together to do it, it would be incredible. We'd love that. That's where we live. I mean, that's our strong place is on stage. stage You know, we love it.
[00:42:25] Charles: Yeah, and that's what you had mentioned, somebody in the band, maybe it was Ben or Jonathan, you guys mentioned the energy of your shows live, you said you would put your band up against any other band as far as matching that energy that you get delivered live.
[00:42:41] Ben: It goes back to the Van Halen conversation because that energy, and I'm talking energetically a bomb going off, not even volume. It's like the collective energy of that many people bringing their full expression at once is what we really try to do. We really get out there and it's like, okay, I don't care how many [00:43:00] people we're playing to. We're like, let's bring it. And, we always have a great time. We always have fun. And so I'm hoping, I'm praying that we get to get back out there.
[00:43:08] Charles: Yeah, that would be very cool. I'd love to see you guys live. As we come up on time here, guys, anything, you'd like to plug? I briefly mentioned the website.
[00:43:17] Ben: Whiskey Theif.
[00:43:17] Charles: Yeah. Oh Yeah. Whiskey Thief. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:43:21] Jonathan: So we have a partnership with, Whiskey Thief Distillery, which is fine bourbon distillery in Frankfort, Kentucky, but they also have a tasting room in Louisville, and we've done some events with them. And, they are our partner on releasing this record. It's the first release on Whiskey Thief Music. Walter Zouch is the principal at the company, and he is our biggest fan. He can go toe-to-toe with Jimmy Fallon for that claim, and I think he'd probably win. Sorry, Jimmy.
[00:43:49] Ben: I think he would. Yeah, he's old and dear.
[00:43:52] Jonathan: Yeah, I mean, he's been in it from the beginning with us, and he's just a lovely guy, and they do make some incredible [00:44:00] bourbon. If you're ever in Louisville or wanna look them up, they're at whiskeythief.com, and that's where you can also navigate around on the website and order our new album, "The Greatest Show on Earth," directly from them on vinyl.
[00:44:12] And we're working on a distribution plan to get the vinyl in more stores. I've also had a few people hit me up asking, "Why can't I get a CD?" So we'll probably come up with a plan to get it on that format as well, since that is a resurgent format in terms of physical, goods for people. And, as you said earlier, you can go to love-jones.com, our website, and we can do orders of the album there as well.
[00:44:36] But it's also available on all the streaming platforms, Amazon, Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to music, as well as the rest of our repertoire, the first three albums too. So hopefully we'll have some more news on upcoming shows soon. We're working on it. And, it's also the 30th anniversary of Swingers, as I think I mentioned, and there might be some stuff going on around that later this [00:45:00] year, so stay tuned. A lot of exciting behind-the-scenes conversations going on.
[00:45:05] Ben: Yeah, there was a text thread this morning, I was like, "Maybe we should record some more music real quick," and just out there, you know? So I don't know. There's a lot of, like, energy building around the band right now.
[00:45:15] Jonathan: We should also give a big shout to our producer John Alagia, who did such an incredible job on pulling this all together with the record. As we alluded to earlier, when you have as many players in the mix as we do and different cities, it is like herding cats at times. And having a steady hand in John, who is an an icon of, not just Louisville music, but also, he is the man behind the curtain on all the great Dave Matthews records and did a lot of work on early John Mayer stuff, and is just an incredible producer and partner and friend.
[00:45:49] Charles: Nice. Yeah, so everybody check out the new Love Jones album, The Greatest Show on Earth, and fire it up at a party or something and people think you're super cool. They're like, "Wow, who are these [00:46:00] guys, man? That sounds awsome.
[00:46:01] Jonathan: That's right.
[00:46:02] Ben: I might even say that the other day, I like this description of being a hidden treasure. I think it's great. I'm hoping that people are like, "Oh, wow, this has been here the whole time. I didn't know about it. It's cool."
[00:46:11] Charles: Yeah, and like you were saying, you know, my daughter, she's in high school and it just seems like everything is popular sort of. The genres, you know, don't matter. She listening to Harry Styles, but also Fontaines DC, and then she's asking me about Bob Dylan too the other day, and I'm like, "Oh, wow."
[00:46:30] So, check out Love Jones. It's a, blast from the past, it's definitely something new too. And, if you have anything else to report down the road, we'd love to have you back. I think, Jonathan, you mentioned you go to a lot of shows out in LA. so yeah, if there's anything that you guys ever wanna talk about or you know, a tour comes together, we'd to have you back on. So, just wanna thank you guys for coming on Seeing Them Live.
[00:46:53] Jonathan: Thank you.
[00:46:54] Ben: That was super fun.
[00:46:56]
Charles: Take care.