Seeing Them Live

S02E15 - From High Hopes to Chaos: Eric & Scott at Jane’s Addiction

Episode Summary

In this special episode of Seeing Them Live: After Show Report, host Charles welcomes back Eric Green and Scott Patrick Wiener. Eric, an award-winning filmmaker and blogger, and Scott, an artist and art teacher, recount their recent experience at the controversial Jane's Addiction concert in Boston where they both had press passes. The discussion covers their long-time friendship, their mutual love for the band, and the chaos that ensued when vocalist Perry Farrell attacked guitarist Dave Navarro during the performance. The episode delves into the band's dynamics, the quality of the show, and the personal significance of the event for Eric and Scott. Additionally, they touch on highlights like the setlist, including rare performances, and the aftermath of the incident as it spread on social media and news outlets. The conversation provides a detailed and personal perspective on a night that was both magical and tumultuous.

Episode Notes

In this special episode of Seeing Them Live: After Show Report, host Charles welcomes back previous guests Eric Green, an award-winning filmmaker and blogger, and Scott Patrick Wiener, an artist and art teacher. Both friends, bonded by their love for Jane's Addiction, recount their experiences at a recent controversial Jane's Addiction concert in Boston where frontman Perry Farrell attacked guitarist Dave Navarro on stage. They reflect on attending the show together, reminiscing on their long friendship, shared history with the band, and involvement in each other's creative projects.

Eric and Scott delve into the details of the concert, describing both the high points of the performance and the troubling behavior exhibited by Perry Farrell, who appeared inebriated. They discuss the band's instrumental prowess and some standout moments from the night, juxtaposed with the unraveling tensions among the band members leading up to the on-stage altercation. The friends offer insights into the darker troubled history of Jane's Addiction, emphasizing the volatility that has characterized the band's trajectory.

Throughout the episode, the two guests also share their perspectives on the broader context of the band's enduring legacy, the personal significance of Jane's Addiction's music in their lives, and their mutual admiration for bassist Eric Avery's contributions to the band's sound. They recount the immediate aftermath of the event, how the altercation was reported by major media outlets, and their reactions to the incident.

The episode concludes with reflections on the meaningful moments of the night despite the dramatic turn of events. Eric and Scott mention their interest in future concert reviews and collaborations, encapsulating their deep bond and mutual passion for live music.

BANDS: Bruce Springsteen, Empire Records, Jane's Addiction, Lollapalooza, Lollapalooza, Love and Rockets, Nine Inch Nails, Pearl Jam, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Ringo Starr and His All-Star Band, The Beatles, The Monkees, Van Halen, Prince

VENUES: Aragon Ballroom, Fenway Park, Grant Park, Hammerstein Ballroom, Hanscom Middle School, Harbor Lights, Leader Bank Pavilion

Episode Transcription

[00:00:00] Charles: Our guests today are Eric Green and Scott Patrick Wiener. Eric is an award-winning writer, director, and producer of documentary films, features, and shorts. And he's also a blogger. Scott is an artist, lifelong skateboarder, and currently teaches art at Hanscom Middle School in Massachusetts. Eric and Scott have both recently appeared on Seeing Them Live in separate episodes over the past few weeks.

[00:00:28] So why are they back on the podcast so soon? Well, Eric and Scott were both at the now infamous Jane's Addiction show in Boston, where vocalist Perry Farrell attacked guitarist Dave Navarro. We're calling this a special Seeing Them Live After Show Report. Eric and Scott. Welcome back to Seeing Them Live.

[00:00:51] Eric: Thanks for having us, Charles. This is great.

[00:00:53] Scott: Yeah. This is awesome. Thanks again.

[00:00:55] Charles: When, Scott shot me an email about this happening, I, I hadn't even read anything about it or saw anything about it. So it was, I was like, well, you know, but then I, I kind of got my bearings like, oh, okay, I, yeah, I could see that happening, but, I thought before we get started guys, maybe, Eric, you've got in your, on your blog, you've got an article about this concert and it's at greensparty.tumblr.Com. 

[00:01:25] And, what I thought was interesting about that blog, not only the, the description of what happened at the concert, but your relationship with Scott and how you guys kind of bonded over Jane's Addiction and you called it like this full circle moment. So, you want to just talk about how this all came about you guys going to this show?

[00:01:48] Eric: Yeah. So, um, Scott and I are longtime friends, uh, and everything going back to, uh, high school. So, um, prior to the summer before high school, I went to Lollapalooza 91, uh, that I discussed on the, uh, the last show that I was on. And, uh, you know, as we all know, Jane's Addiction were the headliners and Perry Farrell was the creator of it.

[00:02:08] And they decided to end on top at the end of that tour. And so anyways, uh, yeah, Scott and I, we met in a high school English class. You had just moved to Bedford, Massachusetts. And, uh, yeah, we were, we were just in English class where we're just talking. We had this assignment where we had to go around and talk about famous people with the same name as us.

[00:02:28] I guess there was some, some assignment. And I, uh, I mentioned, uh, you know, a few, uh, people, public figures with that name, including Eric Avery. And the one person that responded to that was Sky. And so from then on, he and I became friends. We bonded over Jane's Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and multiple other bands.

[00:02:45] And we've, uh, remained really good friends ever since. And since high school, we worked at a video store together. He's helped me out with a lot of film projects that I've done. I've helped him out. He did this great skateboard documentary that he put on YouTube last year that I helped out with as well.

[00:02:59] And, uh, yeah, we've remained really good friends. And, uh, so, uh, with my blog, I sometimes get to do a concert reviews. And, uh, for this one, I, I don't, sometimes I'll just go with my own iPhone and kind of take pictures there. But for this, I put in a photo request and, you know, Scott's not just some guy I know with a camera.

[00:03:18] He's actually a photographer, like a very skilled photographer. Who's had, you know, shows and whatnot. And, uh, this is really meeting of, you know, Scott's interests and professional, you know, photographic abilities coming together. So yeah, it was exciting that the two of us after all these years got to go to Jane's Addiction together with this particular lineup, first lineup since what, 2010, uh, this, this particular classic lineup.

[00:03:40] And, uh, Yeah, so he and I got to go together. You got the photo pass, you got to go into the photo pit, and then we're there almost like a mystery science theater commentary throughout the whole show and stuff. So yeah, there was this kind of backstory of the two of us just forming that friendship out of each other.

[00:03:57] Similar bands that we both liked and then uh, remaining friends and to this day we still go to record stores together. We still go to concerts and things like that and uh, then getting to go see this particular band with this particular lineup that particular night. 

[00:04:11] Charles: So go ahead, Scott.

[00:04:12] Scott: That's right. That was, uh, Miss O'Malley's Freshman English at Bedford High in 1991. There they were, an insecure and flailing young Scott Weiner running around with Doc Martens and floppy hair, um, and a skateboard. And then there was Eric, mature beyond his years, Talking about Eric Avery.

[00:04:34] And I turned, I remember like turning around and being like, , I remember I'm sitting at the desk and I just whip around and I'm like, Jane's Addiction. Right. Cause it was like, I was like, Oh my God, somebody else likes music. That isn't like, I don't know what were people listening to then? Like Bell Biv DeVoe or whatever that, whatever that was like. But, uh, yeah, I had, uh, my, uh, my dad was a military guy. Uh, we had, um, right outside of Bedford, there's this, uh, base called Hanscom. We had moved there in 19 or we'd moved on to the base in 91. And like I was, you know, popping into Bedford high. but, uh, yeah, it was awesome. 

[00:05:09] Eric actually also interviewed, he did a documentary at the end of high school. What was it like? Where are you going to, what, like, what do you think you're going to be doing?

[00:05:16] Eric: It was the, I made a video time capsule just talking to the people in our class and I put it together. It aired at the You know, on that graduation party, and then it's been pulled out for all the reunions and things of that nature. And yeah, Scott was amongst the interviewees for it and stuff.

[00:05:31] Scott: But, yeah, it was like, it was like this whole, like, Jane's Addiction thing was pretty interesting because like, I, I was going back and forth. I wanted to go to it, but all the footage that I had been seeing online made it look, it's like, Harry looked like he was going to die on stage.

[00:05:46] Like, he was real, like, hobbly, going up to the microphone, almost like he was holding onto the microphone for support. And I was like, I don't know. I've been singing summertime roles to my kids since she was, since she was a baby. And I was like, maybe Jane's could be her first show. And then I saw footage for this stuff.

[00:06:01] And I was like, Nope. No, no, no. I'm not taking her to see this, like, guy keel over and die, like, because he can't handle his alcohol. I texted you, like, a couple weeks beforehand, and I was like, Dude, I'm still on the fence. The Jane's tickets are going down in price.

[00:06:14] It's not sold out. And Eric's like, Dude, I'm, I'm, I put in for a press pass. I'm going to put in for a photo pass for you. And, you know, we didn't know it was going to happen, but then like Eric texts me the day before, he's like, dude, like, I'm like in the middle of like in between classes, cause you know, I'm teaching art at this middle school.

[00:06:30] And, um, Eric's like, dude, dude, we got them. Check your email. So we were, I, and all of a sudden, like both of us who were like a little bit ambivalent about going, we're all of a sudden super hyped, right? We went, I like the first three songs happened and I was like, I was like kind of hopeful. Remember Eric?

[00:06:47] I was like, Oh, this might actually be good. The first three songs rocked. They kettle whistle with the original lineup, probably for the first time since like 87 or something, my date might be a little off, but it's around that time. And that like blew me away. That was a big moment for me, like, and also getting to be right up front.

[00:07:03] And then, as I was leaving, Perry Farrell reached out his fist and bumped me, and I told Eric I would never wash this hand again. And then I immediately went to the bathroom and washed my hand.

[00:07:15] Charles: Now, where do you get, when you guys have these passes, and so you're like in the photo pit? Are you both in there then?

[00:07:22] Eric: Um, no, he photographer only, uh, for the photo. But I, I was off to the side, um, but, uh, wait until he got out and stuff, but uh, oh, we should also add love and rockets, uh, where the support act on this dot. I'm by no means an expert on them, but you know, I like their music and we got the cat got there just in time to hear a lot of the big hits.

[00:07:41] And, you know, I know, uh, Charles, maybe you can correct me on this. I think this was like their first tour and what five years or something like that in the U S. But, um, it was definitely cool to see them. And, you know, Dave Navarro has spoken so fondly about, you know, how he was influenced by them and to have them on the tour was a big deal for him.

[00:08:00] So it was definitely cool to see, you know, that, that era of, you know, eighties college rock, you know, there on the stage and that they kind of didn't miss a beat either, just, uh, just from what we saw of them as we were getting ready.

[00:08:13] Charles: So then you're on the stage then, uh, after the three photographs or you're like off to the side?

[00:08:19] Eric: Sort of the front. Yeah, the front. This is the Leader Bank Pavilion. It's sort of this outdoor waterfront, uh, music venue in Boston. So..

[00:08:27] Scott: No it's not. It's Harbor Lights. It's always Harbor Lights.

[00:08:31] Eric: One of these venues that's changed its name, new, new bank buys it every other year or something like that But you know, yeah Bostonians call it harbor lights what it was in the 90s But uh, but yeah, it's waterfront. It's outdoors and this is sort of kind of the tail end of the season um for for them and stuff, so Uh, yeah, so this was, uh, you know, kind of, you know, there's seats and then towards the back.

[00:08:52] I think there was like kind of an open area, but uh, but yeah, so Scott, uh, was in that very front area between, between the barricades and the audience and then the stage. That's where the photo pit was for this show.

[00:09:04] Scott: Yeah, and, um, like, my, my experience in photography is, is, uh, very particular to fine artwork, um, that's what my degrees are in, um, so I'd actually never gotten a press pass to photograph a band before, like, I photographed bands, like, you know, like, high school or, like, college, just for, like, friends bands or something like that, so that was a bit of a new experience for me, um, but it was also, like, a really new because it was Jane's Addiction.

[00:09:32] Like I don't, I probably talked about this on the show, but like Jane's Addiction is one of the most significant parts of my life soundtrack. Like I, every time I listen to them, I connect to the music. It's super emotional for me. Like that all kinds of weird high school memories, good and bad that are associated with it, like with the music.

[00:09:53] So being up front for what, you know, even before I knew it, I was like, you know, this could be the last time we tour, you know what I mean? It's like, who knows if they're what they're going to do after. It was really meant a lot to me and it's like, um, I was. I was psyched to do it in the beginning, but like my gratitude became more pronounced for Eric for finding for actually getting like getting the pass and making it happen.

[00:10:17] Like became more pronounced afterwards because it was like I mean it was a really emotional thing for me to be up front there and photographing this band that I have loved

[00:10:26] and then, you know, so first three songs, they're like, okay, you, everyone goes. And then I went out, found Eric and we stood on the side and just watched the show for the rest of the rest of the time they played.

[00:10:35] Prior to this altercation, how was the show? I mean, what did you think of it?

[00:10:39] Eric: It was by no means like Scott was just saying this is by no means the worst concert we had ever been to or I had ever been to but I think hopes were really high that it was the this classic lineup The hopes were high because they've gone through various iterations the fact that Dave Navarro Had had just come back from like a bout of long covid So he wasn't even on the last few tours the fact that Eric Avery was back the fact that The band was, you know, finally together and they were actually touring.

[00:11:10] I think there was hope. That you know, yeah, you know this band still has it and you know They've done so many classic songs and two two of my all time favorite albums. Uh There and you know, I mean they've they've done it different iterations. They've done different lineups different Albums even but I I think there was just high hopes and it was the musically I thought was really good I think some of the just vocals were kind of off coming in a strange time some of the lyrics were a little off so there was definitely something kind of strange in the air about this uh particular show up until that point but i think you know there's definitely no denying the musicianship which was exciting to hear certain songs getting played there and stuff.

[00:11:53] Scott: Yeah. I'll add the, band was on. Like they were so good, like the version of Three Days that they did, there was a breakdown in the middle that they had never, that I'd never heard them play before. It sounded like it was new, um, to this version where it was just Steven and Eric just driving , the drum and the bass, like, and it was just amazing, amazing instrumentation.

[00:12:19] I mean, Navarro was top form that like the band themselves, Eric, Dave, Steven were like top, top, top form, like so, so, so good. 

[00:12:31] Eric, Eric Avery has always been my favorite member of this band. Um, because so much of their music is wrapped around his melodic baselines. Um, but like, I think I was mentioning this before, if I did mention before, I mentioned it again, like this band has always been volatile.

[00:12:48] Like, they, the majority of their classic output was written before the first record came out. Like, all, like, nothing shocking, all that stuff already existed. As well as all of the material for Ritual De Lo Habitual. With the exception of the song, I think it's called Of Course, the one that with the sitar in it, Eric, um, that I, I was telling you, like, it's the one, it's the one song that Eric Avery didn't play on, on that album. I think that was a new track. But, you know, it's like, at, like, the band was on, and I'll, I'll just add, like, uh, my experience of Perry, like, he was great for the first three songs, he was good for the next three, like, the version of Summertime Rolls was pretty good.

[00:13:37] And then, like, whatever the three songs were leading up to Mountain Song, like, like Eric was saying, he's Forgetting the lyrics. He's coming in off cue. He's slurring his speech. I don't know, like kind of stumbling a little bit. And I was like, okay, like this. And then that's when I was like, okay, this is what I've been seeing online. Like, this is the footage that a lot of the footage that I've been seeing.

[00:14:00] This rings true. They're going to, in my, I was just like, oh, they're just going to push through. And then they're playing mountain song and Perry's kind of all over the place. And then all of a sudden. He leaves stage and he comes and he like goes off stage and then he comes back moments later and he's all like full of energy and angry and he's yelling, "fuck him" as a part of the lyrics to Eric. And he's yelling, "fuck him" to Dave Navarro. And then, you know, the rest, uh, you're aware of, you know, it gets in, it gets in Dave Navarro's face and starts the whole thing. 

[00:14:32] Charles: I saw that on some videos, and Three Days Prior, prior to that song, Mountain Song, and this is from the set list, uh, I'm assuming it's.. 

[00:14:42] Scott: Excuse me. Ocean Size is the song that they like fell apart on where like the fight happens. 

[00:14:46] Charles: But I think the trouble started brewing, you know, that video, and they're, they're You guys have probably seen them online. There's this video where Navarro walks over to Perry and kind of gets his attention and then with his index finger, like gives him the follow me symbol, you know, or gesture, and then he goes and takes his guitar solo, which I guess isn't something that unusual in that song.

[00:15:10] He would, I guess he's signaled before when he's going to take the guitar solo, but then the camera, whoever's shooting this video pans back to Perry. And man, he is like shooting daggers at Navarro, like, he looks pissed. 

[00:15:26] Scott: Well, alcohol is a hell of a drug.

[00:15:28] Charles: Scott, when you say then, you know, then they played Three Days, I guess, you know, maybe this was really over that 90 minute song. 

[00:15:35] Scott: Yeah, there was stuff going on. Like I, there were a couple of times where Eric and where Dave walked over to Eric and they had some sidebars. There was also a moment where Eric and Dave and Steven were kind of in the same place, like maybe talking to each other or something. Like there were these. Things were like, they were having some kind of huddles about something or other and I have a feeling now that it was about Perry. 

[00:16:02] Eric: I mean, obvi obviously, you know, like Scott was saying, it's a volatile, you know, we're, we're talking about a band where there's really a darkness to their music. You know? I mean, this isn't just some, you know, band that does songs about girls in cars or, or Van Halen or, or whatever. You know, like this is a band that, where there's a lot of darkness just in the subject matter. And, you know, you, some of the, you know, Scott and I talk about not, not even with this band, but just about creativity in general is, you know, I think when you're collaborating and well specific to music here, but anytime you get a lot of different people with different personality types and different, you know, perspectives and ideas, you know, that, you know, That can be really interesting to have those differences coming together in a collaboration, but at the same time it can also make it really difficult for those same Different people to be in a band together.

[00:16:55] And, I think, you know, it's especially all these larger than life personalities in one band. You know, it can, you know, there's obviously some bands. I think a lot of, a lot of fans like to think that bands are like the monkeys, like they all live together, hang out together and, you know, and get into misadventures together and then they play a show together, but the reality is some bands, like they really only talk when they're on stage.

[00:17:20] Just, it's like a business or whatever. And, it can be, it can be a hard thing to, you know, I saw Flea in an interview saying it can be a really hard thing to just be in a band and put your ego aside and think about the greater good and think about the fans, it's a hard thing. 

[00:17:35] So, I mean, certainly no judgment in terms of the backstory, the history or anything like that. But, you know, you hope for the best. You hope as a fan that the band's going to be able to really, follow through and do the best show possible and make the best music possible.

[00:17:50] Scott: Yeah, and I was like, I mean, Eric and I have, I mean, I, I wrote this in my post. It's like, we have been loving this band, since we were kids. And I don't know if everyone experiences, but I think people who love music really experience this like who like dial into it and have these like emotional connections to certain to certain songs, you know, who put this best as Cameron Crowe speaking through Penny Lane.

[00:18:16] Um, I'm not gonna, in Almost Famous, it's like, when, oh, actually, it was through Feru, um, the Feru's a bulk character, we're just talking about, like, a lot of people don't understand, like, when you love a band so much, you're willing to do anything just to be close to it, like, just to be close to that music, I'm paraphrasing, but it's something along those lines.

[00:18:33] Jane's Addiction was like that for me, I know it was like, uh, I know that, or, not was, they are like that for me, they are like that for Eric. Green, not Avery. But, uh, to get to see, for them to even get back together and like play as the, the original lineup again was like a huge deal. Like I was so excited when I heard it. And then I started seeing some of the footage and then I was like, maybe I'm not that excited, but they released two new songs and that's a good thing. 

[00:18:59] Charles: You had pointed that out, and because I was on the fence, I think I told you that, you know, they were playing on a Tuesday night here in Chicago at the Aragon Ballroom, and I was like, eh, that's rough, you know. a school night, so to speak.

[00:19:13] Scott: Hey, you never know like they could have gotten in a fight in Chicago. I mean, this could have happened anywhere.

[00:19:17] Charles: I'll tell you my Chicago story in a bit, which was a bizarre occurrence with Perry again. So when did you guys realize what was going on?

[00:19:29] Eric: Yeah, I looked away uh for like a for a nanosecond. 

[00:19:32] Scott: Yeah. I'm jumping in for this one. Cause I'm like, we're both sitting there. I'm like mesmerized. Like, I'm just like, I can't take my eyes off of it. Like I'm watching the whole thing. You know what I mean? You know, soup to nuts, the good, the bad, the ugly, like I'm just there for it.

[00:19:45] You know what I mean? I just. photograph them from I was closer than the people in the front row. You know what I mean? It's like, I'm on like cloud nine. And again, Eric, I will love you forever for this. This is like.. 

[00:19:56] Eric: We have to do this again is what we have to do, scott. We have to do another concert review. 

[00:20:00] Scott: We got to like go, the next show we go to together, that band obviously has to get in a fight.

[00:20:05] Eric: It's us. The problem is us.

[00:20:08] Scott: I know we, we showed up and ruined everything. But, I'm like, you know, I'm like dialed in, I'm super absorbed, right? And then all of a sudden like, you know, Perry's like doing this thing and he's like yelling at them. Then he goes over to Dave and shoulder shoulder text him. I look over to Eric and Eric was like, he had just like looked down at his phone for a second.

[00:20:25] And I'm like, dude! Dude, dude, they're fighting. Look, look, look, they're like in there. They're like Perry is attacking Dave and then it got worse and worse. And then everything that you know, like they, you know, the three guys like, uh, Eric went over to the drum set, Dave and Stephen came out from behind.

[00:20:44] They all like took a bow, said thank you, left the stage. It was interesting because Stephen sort of like wandered a little bit before he went in. Like he was, I think he was like alone for a second and then he took off and then we were like, uh, That's gotta be it. And then the house lights came up and they started playing whatever exit music they had.

[00:21:02] Eric: I mean, it was like, yeah, the lights going on kind of was, uh, that. And I guess, you know, there was a good three or four more songs they had been doing on this tour. So, uh, we did not get Classic Girl, which is my personal all time favorite song of theirs. And we didn't get, uh, Stop. We didn't get Dingpot Stealing. 

[00:21:19] So, you know, it was really a bummer that it kind of ended on that and already just, you know, already then social media is blowing up about this, my phone, everyone's like, Oh, did you guys see this? What happened? And everybody's going crazy. And then by the time I get home, all of a sudden, there's like, then news outlets are picking up on this story, like, and not just like local, like CNN is talking about this.

[00:21:41] Variety, Hollywood Reporter, everyone's like, you know, just like, Hey, at a Jane's Addiction show in Boston, violence breaks out from the band. And all the, all is all the headlines and stuff. And then I haven't even written the review. I mean, figured, processed everything about what I just watched yet. And now all of, all of this is going down.

[00:21:58] So Scott was just getting his photos in order on the car ride home and stuff. So, you know, it's kind of, you don't always get that experience where all of a sudden there was just this, you know, atomic bomb in the middle of a concert review you're you're setting out to do and stuff.

[00:22:15] Scott: I have to say it was amazing. It was probably one of the most significant concert going experiences of my entire life from like, the highest high to the weirdest weird. All I could think of, all I could think of, like, the best headline would have been Perry Farrell. He's exactly like you thought he would be. Cuz it's like, I mean, let's be honest, like, if you know anything about Jane's Addiction or if you've followed them at all, like, Perry Farrell's a fucking asshole. Like, he's not awesome. But he's a great singer and he's a great frontman, and when those four guys get together and make music, It is, like, earth shattering. 

[00:22:50] Charles: I don't know what you guys saw, but like, you know, from the video I was watching, Eric Avery's, I think it was Eddie Farrell saying that he punched Perry a few times, but I noticed, and I don't know who, who this was, but when Perry's kind of bound up with all these people trying to restrain him, he's hitting somebody in the neck, in the back of the head with a microphone.

[00:23:13] Scott: Yes. 

[00:23:14] Eric: Is that the roadie? 

[00:23:15] Charles: I'm sure, uh, that probably doesn't feel too good and, and maybe, I don't know if that was Eric Avery, or who that, or who he was doing that to, but, you know, maybe he's just trying to defend himself, you know?

[00:23:26] Scott: Honestly, like, Eddie Farrell's too close to this. I don't take her account into consideration. Again, I basically give it very, very little, very little credibility because of the, because of the enabling that was evident in that post. This is what I'll say, from all the videos that I've seen and from watching it, Perry Farrell was not calm when they were restraining him.

[00:23:46] He was flailing about, he was swinging, like, if, like, if in fact Eric Avery did hit him, which is really hard to see from those angles. Like, you can see arms moving and there's one part where it's unclear whether or not it's his arm or Perry's or the roadie. Like, it's hard to tell, but one thing is for certain.

[00:24:07] Perry Farrell chose violence and he continued to choose violence even as he was being restrained. Like, I don't think there, like, I don't think there's any cheap shots going on in there. I think that they were trying to contain him, because he left the stage drunk and came back really, really awake.

[00:24:25] Eric: Absolutely. I think, you know, it's kind of a very fine line between was, was it a cheap shot or was it simply trying to restrain someone who was out of control? Everyone's been dissecting these. Fan videos like it's the Zapruder film, basically, it's like, it's like, Whoa, at this angle, it's this. So I don't know, Scott, somebody might teach a class just about this show someday or something. 

[00:24:48] Scott: Oh my god. I'm gonna teach it. 

[00:24:50] Eric: Something you brought up Charles about Eddie Farrell's, um, post you mentioned tinnitus, uh, was being an issue. And, It's not uncommon in this day and age to see musicians on stage with like earpieces where they're getting a direct feed of the instruments to be able to hear on stage to be able to be in sync. So I think, you know, obviously there's treatments, you know, that are there if that's the case.

[00:25:15] And, uh, you know, I was reminded of something. I did a short documentary about, uh, the Beatles, uh, history with Boston and, um, not to compare the Beatles and Jane's Addiction at all, but.. 

[00:25:25] Scott: Because Jane's Addiction is clearly better. 

[00:25:28] Eric: All right, well, let's, uh, you want me to take the bait, Scott, but like, one of the interviewees we had in there, uh, he brought up a point saying, you know, this is 1964 Beatles, but he was saying that at that time people have always been critical of Beatles live shows because, you know, they said, what you have to understand is this is what they sound like when they could not hear each other on stage because of the screaming fans.

[00:25:53] And you know, he said his analogy was it's like they're trying to do magic in the dark. So that is not what was happening here. This you know could have been easily if there was tinnitus of the sound issues or anything. I think there could have been Uh treatments between you know, the band between the stage the sound check the the musicians everything could have been resolved in a different way I think. 

[00:26:16] Scott: And not just for one show either. You know what I mean? It's like, if it was an ongoing issue, then it's something that could have been dealt with, like, way far in advance. And also, Perry was wearing an in ear monitor. Like, it's not like he wasn't wearing a monitor. And it's not like Dave has control, or Eric, or Stephen have control over the sound.

[00:26:36] The engineers do. That's why, like, I hate giving any credence to the Eddie Farrell's account, because she's too close to it, you know what I mean? It's like, those guys don't control the sound. If it's loud, or if it's been loud, and if it's been an ongoing problem, why wasn't it dealt with?

[00:26:52] Charles: She did describe it as like, to me, it seemed like she described it. They were deliberately louder drowning him out or something, was the way I read it. And I, the same thing. So I was like, well, how could that be? There's a soundboard and.. 

[00:27:05] Scott: Yep, it's not. It's making excuses to cover up the fact that there's some real that Perry has some real struggles and so part of it's sad. You know what? I mean? It's like I'm sure that tonight this thing is real. I'm sure that like he's he's struggling vocally. You know what I mean?

[00:27:21] And I'm sure that he hasn't has a drinking problem. Because every single show that we've seen, he's got a bottle of wine in his hand. I mean, in the Lollapalooza documentary, which is an excellent documentary series, by the way. Thanks, Eric actually brought my attention to it. And I, while I finished it recently, he's sitting down in that interview, just drinking out of a bottle of wine. Like, I mean, this is clearly a thing.

[00:27:42] Charles: When I saw him in '09, I had passes to the Lala Lounge, Lalapalooza, and we were walking, across this pathway and the security guards stopped us and Jane's Addiction came walking by. And I have a picture of Perry Farrell in the sequin. Suit with a bottle of wine, you know, he's ascending the stage.

[00:28:05] And again, you know, if you're a vocalist, I know I've heard vocalists talk about, they don't, don't even drink coffee because it, it messes with their vocal cords. And I would imagine, I don't know, drowning your vocal cords in wine during a show, that can't be good for your voice. I would imagine.

[00:28:22] Scott: Especially if it's that consistent too. It's like, I mean, he is. It's like in all the video footage, it's all there. Like, there's no question that he wasn't wasted. He was drunk, well drunk. It sounds like, even in like, I don't know how much other, how much footage of other songs of that show are out there at this point.

[00:28:41] Like I have, um, I was able to record summertime roles, um, just cause I wanted to share it with my kid. Um, and he doesn't sound, I mean, it was a decent rendition of the song, but the vocals aren't sounding great. You know what I mean? And it's like, it's like, as the show went on, I was talking about, like, I really focused on like the technical, but it sounds like, honestly, it just sounds like his voice gets more and more tired as the, as the show went on.

[00:29:06] So, which again, it's like, I mean, it's really, there's this, there's a set and there's a part of it that's really sad, not just because we've probably lost Jane's Addiction forever, but because like, Perry isn't taking care of himself.

[00:29:18] Charles: And I had mentioned to you guys, I had seen them on their Relapse tour in Chicago, 1997, November 3rd at the Aragon Ballroom. And, they had just broadcast on Halloween on MTV from the Hammerstein Ballroom, which was a few days before I saw them, you know, they were fantastic, but the night I saw them, Perry comes out in this powder blue jumpsuit or no, sorry, leisure suit and with these huge platform shoes, I'm talking like Elton John 1970 something platform shoes, they were enormous. And he, he couldn't walk really well, but, but after a while, I started to realize, well, I don't think it's all about the shoes. And then, as you'd mentioned, one of my favorite songs, Summertime Rolls, he just got lost in the song and he, he stopped like at the second verse and, uh, asked the band to start over again.

[00:30:12] Which, I mean, they were, they were not like they were in New York. And at the beginning of the concert, he had mentioned how he had such a great time last night during that Halloween show in New York, I'm sitting there thinking, dude, it's like Three Days later, where, where are you? You know? It was probably one of the worst concerts I've, I've ever seen, which was hugely disappointing. So this problem seems to go back a ways, you know, there was no violence, of course. 

[00:30:41] Scott: That's a really good point. It gets into, I mean, I think I mentioned this briefly, but this band is so, was, has always been volatile. I mean, the, the breakup in, the original breakup, like after, was it like after Lollapalooza? From what I understand, and I don't want to get too specific because I don't know everything, but, it had, like, part of it had to do with how royalties were split.

[00:31:05] But it also had to do with Eric Avery dating one of Harry's exes. That story has been around for a while. So there's been a really bad blood between Perry and Eric for a really long time. And then they got back together. They did that, like the Ninja tour, I think it was like, '09, '10.

[00:31:21] And when they played with a Nine Inch Nails and Eric left that tour. Like ended that tour early. I think he like ended, he left after Australia or something. And then there was like all this like back and forth in the media with them arguing and on different platforms and talking about whose fault it was.

[00:31:40] And then Jane's Addiction releases the great escape artist. And he has a whole song called end to the lies, all about Eric Avery and how he's such a liar and an awful person. And I'm like, you wrote a song about this. I was like, just give me a Jane's Addiction record. Cause there's, there's some good songs on that, but it's just like those records without Eric are missing the melodic base, the melodic baselines that the rest of the instrumentation gets wrapped around.

[00:32:05] Like they talk about this in interviews, like Eric Avery comes up with these baselines and then Steven and Navarro, they work responsibly at, and sometimes, uh, and then also sometimes Perry comes in with like a melody. And then Eric will build on it and then they work these things around it. It's like, it's almost like there's a lead bass and a, like a, there's a bit of a lead guitar, but like every time I hear their music, it's like, everything is swirling around this beautiful baseline.

[00:32:34] I mean, people, Kim deal is a great basis, but Les Claypool is a great basis to go back to empire records, the classic film of the nineties. But Eric Avery is the cream of the crop, like, his bass lines are, as far as I'm concerned, some of the best that have ever been written.

[00:32:51] Charles: Yeah. Most of the songs or a lot of them start with those baselines. You know, it's just the signature of the band, the sound. 

[00:33:00] Scott: Yeah, the two new songs, like, uh, True Love and Imminent Redemption. Um, like you, like the bass comes in and you're like, this is Jane's Addiction. You're like, I don't know what Strays was. I don't know what Great Escape Artist was, but this is Jane's Addiction. Like you hear the bass, you hear the other instruments working around the bass.

[00:33:19] And it's like it drives the song. Fun footnote, um, Eric, Eric Green, not Eric Avery, uh, Eric Green and I also bought the, uh, the studio recordings of this, uh, excuse me, there was a seven inch they were selling at the merch booth of true, uh, true of the studio recordings of True Love and imminent redemption.

[00:33:38] And we both bought one. I also bought one for a friend, right. And like, we're like, I mean, I was psyched just to have it, you know what I mean? Cool. You know, like it's 15 bucks for a seven inch. Um, but as we were walking out, you were like, it was like platinum or something we're holding because it's like this is probably the last studio recordings of the original Jane's Addiction lineup that is ever going to see the light of day.

[00:34:01] Charles: Yeah. 

[00:34:02] Eric: Side note, after the show, of course, you know, there was Perry Farrell's wife coming out with a statement, there was Dave Navarro saying the next show was cancelled, and then the band saying the band is ending this tour and everything, but of all the times to drop a new song was the other day. They decide, alright, now's as good a time as any, let's put this out now, you know. 

[00:34:21] Scott: I think it was yesterday and the song is called True Love.

[00:34:24] Charles: Yeah.

[00:34:26] Scott: I'm drowning in the irony. 

[00:34:28] Charles: Well, I was, I was looking at the lyrics of the Eminent Redemption song and just kind of paraphrasing some of the pieces of the song, Perry sings, let's all make a comeback. It's not only me, we all need a little redemption, a redeeming, sorry. Can you ever forgive me?And I thought, huh, I suppose, you know, but it's the guys in the band that need to forgive him. 

[00:34:54] Scott: Interestingly enough is that like that, of course that was written before all this. And it almost seemed like when I first heard that song, I was like, Oh, this is interesting. Like Perry is poeticizing his position in the band. Like, and really it seemed like he was coming to terms with it through the music. I mean, the, the lyrics are, were interesting. They grew on me at first. I was like, it feels like a little too, um, literal, yeah, a little too literal, but as it, you know, as I listened to it more, I ended up falling in love more with it and I appreciated like Harry's prior to the, you know, the big blow up, I appreciated his, like, I appreciated the sentiment and his like vulnerability in the song and it's a gorgeous song. Like, I mean, True Love is also really, really good. 

[00:35:37] Eric: Yeah. Well, I mean Scott brought up an interesting point just about uh, you know, all these other great bassists you know in terms of music history and how Eric Avery really? I mean the the you know other I thought Flea obviously is a fantastic bass player, obviously and

[00:35:53] Scott: Yup.

[00:35:54] Eric: Chris Chaney, I think, was a terrific bassist, too. Duff McKagan did a stint in Jane's Addiction for a little while, too. And all of these are fantastic musicians. But I think there's something about this particular lineup of all four of them and how they all played off each other that made The music magic, but at the same time, you know, they're, they are the four personalities they are.

[00:36:15] And so, you know, we hope for the best hope, uh, hope they can work things out. If not, well, we saw the last show ever, Scott.

[00:36:25] Scott: Yeah, I know. I'm not hopeful. I mean, as you get older, I think you all have, you all can sympathize with this, when you become a little less tolerant of other people's bullshit, and they're older now, you know what I mean? And like, he attacked his bandmate, his friend, of many, many years on stage, in public.

[00:36:44] Eric: It's hard to come back from that. I mean, Dave Navarro is he, Dave Navarro is a superstar in his own right. I mean, well, it's never right to, you know, get violent and assault another person. And for the fact that you'd just come, overcome some health issues, made it that worse, I thought. 

[00:37:00] Charles: Well, and one, one thing, I had read, this book called Long Road. I don't know if you guys have read it, Pearl Jam and the Soundtrack of a Generation. It's by Stephen Heiden. And then he has little bits and pieces, not many, about Jane's Addiction, and he talks about how they broke up in 1991, because of infighting and drug abuse, or drug use, and as a result, Pearl Jam took over the cultural momentum, squandered by Jane's Addiction. That word squandered always seems to, you know, to me, it's like, man, you know, they have these opportunities, you know, and again, I'm talking about Perry Farrell, mostly here, the show I saw in 97 there, you know, the comeback and it was terrible. And now this, and it's just these, these opportunities where they could really do something, they squander them away.

[00:37:53] Eric: I mean, it's interesting you bring that up. Cause I saw, I saw Pearl Jam on Tuesday night at Fenway park and it was my, uh, my third time seeing them. And I joked on social media. I said, you know, something tells me they're going to be better behaved than Jane's Addiction last week. And, uh, you know, this lineup of Pearl Jam has been the same since 98 and they, you know, they've had lineup changes.

[00:38:14] They've had. Their share of infighting, but it never got to that level. It was always, you know, more of a professional situation, but you see them, you know, bringing it to a stadium and bringing their, their sound and all of the musicians playing off each other really well. And I, I think they, you know, if they, if that's true, that they, they picked up the spotlight that Jane's walked away from in 1991, then I think they've, they've really run with it and they've earned their place as one of the greatest live bands of all on the planet.

[00:38:44] Scott: Like, those egos all in one place, is going to end up in a place where they're not together. It was like they struck lightning in a bottle for a few years. They wrote a bunch of brilliant songs, three records worth. And then, you know, without, you know, without the original lineup made a couple of kind of middling albums, even though they had, even though they had some hits on them, it was never as magical as the, as the original lineup. 

[00:39:10] I mean, I, Eric was mentioning this on the way through the show, Side B of Ritual Dalo Habitual is one of the greatest Side Bs ever written. It's like, and it's not fast paced. You know what I mean? It's like a slow burn. Like, I mean, Three Days, I think I was reading something somebody, people have said this before, so I'm not original here, but like people talk about Three Days as being the Stairway to Heaven of that generation.

[00:39:33] And that's fine, but it's also like its own thing. It is a journey about drugs and a threesome. But I didn't actually realize that until several years later, because the music to me was always just about being like it was always just about like being together with someone happy in your own sadness That's how Three Days always always that's how I always dealt with Three Days I feel like Classic Girl's able to do that whole B, that whole B side does it like, it's a brilliant, brilliant B side.

[00:40:03] And it's like, I mean, we talk a lot about like, um, we're talking a lot about like, you know, the show, how, like, I mean, in my estimation, it started good and it's steadily went downhill until the, until the explosion or implosion, depending on your perspective, but there was also these like really beautiful moments too.

[00:40:20] I mentioned this before, but like, I want to like, I really want to highlight it to see the original lineup play Petal Whistle over 30 years later is something I will never forget. Petal Whistle is one of their best songs in my estimation. It is right up there with Three Days. It's up there with Then She Did.

[00:40:38] It's up there with Classic Girl. It's up there with Summertime Rolls. It's up there with Ted Just Admit It. It's that good. And they never played it, um, like in, like when, when, like when Eric saw them in 91, they weren't playing it. Right. They didn't play it again until the show, like this tour that you saw because they re recorded it or they recorded it in the studio with Flea.

[00:41:01] So basically the original lineup never played it and it, like the version that they did, like how they reworked it was both melancholy, sentimental, but also very of its moments. It was wrapping up time in and out in and of itself, all in the present. 

[00:41:17] And I'm sitting there right in front of them, right. Watching this thing unfold. And while I'm photographing, I'm singing the lyrics along with them. Like, I'm like bobbing my head. I'm pumping my fist in the front and I'm the only photo person they're doing. And I'm looking around. I'm like, is anyone enjoying this?

[00:41:34] I was like, this is amazing. Um, so, I mean, with I want to like, hold in tension. Yes, it was like, it's something of a tragedy. I mean, for me personally, I think for Eric as well, to watch this ha like, to watch it kind of devolve into violence, but there were also really magical and beautiful things about it as well, like the light.

[00:41:55] On in and of itself was amazing. And when they were on, they were on like fours was really good. Pigs and Zen was really good. Three Days was epic. Um, so yeah, I want to, I just want to make sure we put a kind of like, I want to like acknowledge that, um, that there was good stuff as well. 

[00:42:16] Eric: Well, you know, like, like I was saying with, uh, you know, the album review and everything, it's like, you know, I, I'm glad I saw them in 1991. That was by far the more superior show of the two, but having said that, I think there's also this whole backstory of Scott and I being friends and getting to go experience this together.

[00:42:34] The fact that I, I occasionally get to, you know, review concerts and stuff is not taken for granted for a second. And the fact that I got to see this show was cool. And, uh, I got to. see with a longtime friend who also, you know, we have a history of loving this band together and stuff. I think it was a cool thing.

[00:42:50] So, you know, it wasn't, you know, I mean, it's too bad that there was violence within the band on stage, but I think we, I don't know, we just left the venue and went home. We were fine. We were, I mean, everything was fine with us. Everyone's Texted me, Eric, what the hell's up with Jane's Addiction? What happened at the show? What happened? What'd you do? How'd you, like, and it's like, dude, I was just standing there watching. What was it, The Hard Times, or The Onion, or something? Had some headline you sent me, Scott? 

[00:43:20] Scott: Hard times. 

[00:43:21] Eric: Oh yeah. 

[00:43:22] Scott: Hard Times has this like epic, I gotta find it because it is worth repeating, um, headline. Where is it? Dave Navarro admits he's surprised nobody punched him sooner. Really good. 

[00:43:34] Charles: Yeah, this has been great. I'm glad we could get together again. I wasn't expecting so soon. Is there anything you'd like to close with, plug? We mentioned your blog, Eric, greensparty.tumblr.com. Did I get that right?

[00:43:50] Eric: Yeah. Greensparty.tumblr.com and, the concert reviews on there and I just feel really grateful that I get to cover shows this past week. It started with Jane's Addiction on Friday. Then Tuesday, I saw Pearl Jam at Fenway Park. And then last night, very last minute, like at four o'clock, I got approved for Ringo Starr and his All Star Band.

[00:44:10] And, you know, obviously no violence is happening there at that show. And I was very much on the younger end of the spectrum with that. And that was my third time getting to see Ringo, but you know, I've always been a music geek. I've always loved music and getting to see. Live music, especially coming out of the pandemic and, you know, any opportunity to get to see bands I love and I'm a big fan of and get to write about and review is exciting to me.

[00:44:34] And the fact that I get to share it with friends like Scott and have him contribute to it a little, it's really exciting too. I think that what you're doing here with this podcast and, talking to people about live music is terrific and, you know, the fact that the story continues. I'd love to see like a mashup, like if you had like everybody who mentions Prince, everybody who mentions, you know, Bruce Springsteen or something of that nature.

[00:44:55] And, and, you know, the, if there was some, I don't know, algorithm you had of like the most amount of mentions, the least amount or something after however many seasons, I think that would be a really cool thing.

[00:45:05] Charles: We're, we're actually talking about that. Doug Florzak, he's the producer and co-host. Sometimes he's on here with me and, we're thinking about putting something like that together at your suggestion, Eric. We've been thinking about it. Yeah, we should do something like that.

[00:45:20] Scott, go ahead. Do you have anything a to add or close with? 

[00:45:24] Scott: I just want to like, acknowledge and be grateful for the friendship that, Eric and I have shared over the years. You know, you come to a point in your life where you're just grateful for the people that are still, that are kind of still around that you share history with and last Friday night was like, even with all of everything that was swirling around it, the good and the bad was like really magical because I was there with one of my oldest friends. 

[00:45:45] Eric: Very much. Scott's friendship, definitely something I value greatly. And I was glad that we get to have these fun, fun experiences together and everything. Actually, you know, Charles, you know, talk about, you know, you being based in Chicago. I did think of this as we were talking about, you know, Lollapalooza and how, uh, Lollapalooza was a traveling festival and then at a certain point it became a standalone weekend festival in Chicago.

[00:46:08] I remember I was visiting Chicago and Scott was going to grad school there and I remember going there and he brought me to, you know, one of the buildings there and I remember overlooking, what was it, Grant Park? Where, I think it was like the first or second year Lollapalooza had been. happening as like a, a weekend festival in Chicago. And, yeah, he pointed it out and I said, Oh, wow, that's where Lollapalooza is. So, um, you know, one of these days I'll make it for the festival. One of these days.

[00:46:34] Scott: We should go together. The, you don't know, you don't know what the screwy thing was, is I was, so they started that in 2005, I learned from the documentary. My grad year, my graduate school years were 05 to 07, and I had one every single year, and I didn't fucking go. I was so not into it, I was like, I'm not going to follow, lose a fuck Perry Farrell.

[00:46:53] You know what I mean? It was like, he ruined Jane's Addiction! You know what I mean? Like, and I didn't, I didn't go to a single one, and I'm watching the documentary, I'm like, fuck, why didn't I go to one? Like, such a, like, pompous thing, or like, pompous way to be.

[00:47:06] Like this kind of like fuck everything attitude that I sorta carry a little bit with me to this day. Eric will attest to this. I used to wear a shirt in high school that had like this skateboard kid walking and above it. It said everything sucks And that like I became like the everything sucks guy for better or worse. 

[00:47:22] Eric: On brand. 

[00:47:24] Scott: On brand. 

[00:47:25] Eric: Well, this has been awesome, Charles. And hopefully, if we're ever witnessing another historic controversial show, we're, we're happy to come on again, you know? 

[00:47:35] Charles: I appreciate you guys taking the time. And it was just like, I threw it out there, sort of half joking, but serious, you know? And Scott's like, yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Let's do it. So, here we are. I appreciate you taking the time to talk about this, and I just look forward to when we can have another conversation about something else. 

[00:47:55] Scott: For sure and I like, I'll just end on the same with the same thing that Eric's saying. Thank you so much for having us back um, it was Unexpected, but super awesome. Like to just to be on the same show with Eric, dealing with this thing, kind of talking, like talking about it, in more detail than I think we talked about it before.

[00:48:14] Cause at first we were just, we haven't hung out since then. We were just like kind of dealing with the immediate feelings and the aftermath of it. But now it's like, you know, there's more clarity now. 

[00:48:23] Eric: Everyone just trying to make sense of it all. And I think doing a podcast like this with eyewitnesses, I think is the only way we really can, you know, work through it.

[00:48:33] Scott: Yep.

[00:48:33] 

Charles:

 This has been great. Lots of interesting angles and perspectives. Thanks again for coming on.