Seeing Them Live

S02E09 – McCartney Throws Paul a Pack of Cigarettes

Episode Summary

In this episode, Charles welcomes Paul Peterson, a retired technology manager and avid audiophile, who is the creator, host, and producer of the podcast "An Avid Listener.” The conversation spans Paul's extensive history with live music, starting with his first concert, The Doors, in 1969 at the Auditorium Theater in Chicago. Paul shares vivid memories of live performances, emphasizing the significance of concert acoustics and reminiscing about iconic shows, including those by Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, and Paul McCartney & Wings. He recounts fascinating stories, such as a failed hitchhiking trip to Woodstock and an unusual souvenir from a Wings concert. The discussion also touches on Paul's home audio setup and the nuances of vinyl versus digital formats. Towards the end, Paul talks about the future of his podcast amid changes in Spotify’s platform.

Episode Notes

In this episode, Charles welcomes Paul Peterson, a retired technology manager and lifetime audiophile who created, hosts, and produces the podcast "An Avid Listener" available on Spotify. Paul shares his experiences attending concerts since 1969, starting with his first concert seeing The Doors at the Auditorium Theater in Chicago. He reminisces about the vibrant music scene of the late '60s and early '70s, recounting memorable performances by legendary bands like The Beatles, The Doors, and Paul McCartney and Wings. Paul vividly describes the concert atmospheres, such as the excellent acoustics of the Auditorium Theater, and the more challenging sound environments of larger venues.

Charles and Paul discuss various concert experiences, including Paul’s attempt to attend Woodstock and the Kickapoo Creek Rock Concert, which ended in unexpected adventures and challenges. Paul humorously recalls falling asleep at a Deep Purple concert and shares an anecdote about receiving a cigarette pack from Paul McCartney at a Wings concert. They also delve into Paul’s memorable experience at Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon tour, highlighting the unique and powerful visual and auditory effects of the show.

Charles and Paul exchange stories of their favorite concerts, mentioning notable performances by artists such as Pink Floyd, REM, Jane’s Addiction, and The Lumineers. They reflect on the evolution of live concert experiences, noting improvements in acoustics and stage production over the years. Paul talks about his podcast, "An Avid Listener," where he connects musical dots by exploring the interconnected histories of albums and artists, providing listeners with fascinating insights and lesser-known backstories. The episode wraps up with a discussion on the value of sharing music and concert experiences, emphasizing the enduring joy and connection music brings to fans and audiophiles alike.

Episode Transcription

[00:00:00] Charles: Today our guest is Paul Peterson. Paul is a retired technology manager and lifetime audiophile. He is the creator, host, and producer of the podcast An Avid Listener, which is available on Spotify. Paul, welcome to Seeing Them Live.

[00:00:17] Paul: Thanks Charles. 

[00:00:18] Charles: There's a lot here to talk about. You've been going to concerts since, 1969. And, out of all my years of chatting with people about live music and concerts, I have never met anybody who has seen The Doors. That was your first concert. You were 16 took place at The Auditorium Theater, this was 1969, June 14th, I believe so, yeah, if you just wanna talk about that experience and, and what that was like.

[00:00:50] Paul: Well, you know, I grew up in the, sixties, so the Beatles, right? Big stars. And when you look at, '67 through '71, my years as a high school senior and college, the music that came out, you know, The Doors, uh, the Beatles finished, you know, some of their best work in that period. All these groups, Crossroads Stills, Nash, and Young, all these groups were forming and they were all around and we just went to concerts.

[00:01:14] Whenever we could, you know, money was, tight. But for example, I saw Paul McCartney and Wings, the ticket was $9.50. The Doors, who I saw, they said the gross receipts were $44,000 for, this was a major band, right? And, so The Doors was my second, my first record I ever owned was Sgt. Pepper.

[00:01:35] Number two was Strange Days. And so, they were on their third album promoting that. I read somewhere that; Morrison liked The Auditorium Theater. Now The Auditorium Theater, if you've ever been there is very, old school, red carpet. I mean, wow. What are, what are we rock stars doing in here? Right? And so, it gave credibility to the band and he just came off Miami, the arrest in Miami. Nobody, I think thought that was going to happen in Chicago, but it was, you know, it made everybody a little nervous, but. The acoustics were great. The seating was great. Morrison was nipping back behind one of the amps to, uh, sip a beer. You could see the glint of the glass every now and then. And I, my cousin and I went and then, we took the train to a suburban home in Berwyn, my cousin's house. in Berwyn. And, you know, the, recalling the concert was kind of hard. You know, it was so long ago. 

[00:02:23] And so acoustics were important and in Chicago concerts in the old stadium, which was, steel girders and wood slatted chairs for hockey. And there was a lot of echo. And, then you get to auditorium theater, good, good stuff there. And of course, a lot of smaller clubs, Park West and Fitzgerald's out in Berwyn. So, the acoustics are a little bit more roomy. 

[00:02:43] When I heard Morrison talk about the acoustics that sort of caught me is, I don't want to go anywhere where it's hard to hear. So, things like Soldier Field kind of get ruled out. Certainly, an event. 

[00:02:55] Recently we saw Elton John and there and it was well orchestrated and, but it's hard to know. It's hard to be part of a group that big, you know, you go to the Aragon ballroom, you can stand there and have a beer and, you know, talk or dance so for going to concerts and sitting still for three or four hours or whatever it was, it was always not my favorite thing.

[00:03:15] Charles: I went to see the band, The National last year at The Auditorium. And, yeah. I mean, you can't beat the acoustics in that place. And, I know you can appreciate that as, being, an audiophile you take notice of that. I'm sure. But yeah, you could hear like on some songs, you know, you could literally drop in there and it was really fabulous.

[00:03:38] Paul: You know, and you can experience more of that now at home, , it's round sound and things like that. 

[00:03:43] Charles: Paul, you and your, well, I don't know if it was your cousin or whoever you, about six weeks later, you guys tried to make a trek, out to, Woodstock, New York, to see the concert, but it, it didn't, pan out too well.

[00:03:56] Paul: I lived in Schaumburg, which is a farm community. At the time, the mayor was a guy by the name of Bob Hatcher. He was a, uh, head of the Big Barn, Dance. That was on channel nine TV at six o'clock. So, he was the mayor of Schaumburg. Schaumburg was switching over to suburban homes. were in literally the middle of nowhere.

[00:04:12] We said, “Oh, we'll just hitchhike.” We didn't see a car. And when we did see when he got us as far as Roselle and I said, I, this is going to take forever. We'll never going to get there. So, we had a pizza and then had to about how to get home. But so, what we decided to do was, rather than go to Woodstock, we decided to take the train from Roselle, Illinois into the city and we'll meet some hippie chicks, spend the night with them and then head home. 

[00:04:36] Oh, I'm staying at Ed's house. And Ed says, “Oh, I'm staying with you.” And, we got downtown and of course, didn't pan out. We didn't meet anybody. And all of a sudden, we were arrested for curfew violation because we were just wandering Wells Street, you know, and my dad said, let him, let him stay there. So, we sat in a detective office eating doughnuts. Quite an eye opener. 

[00:04:54] And, but we, yeah, we never, and we had a failed attempt with Kickapoo, which is another, but it was in Wisconsin, right? So, I drove up there, we got stuck in traffic. You couldn't get anywhere near the park. So, I stayed with the car. My friends went ahead with their fold up tents. And then it poured rain, it just, and everybody was wet and driving home, it was muddy and slow. 

[00:05:16] Charles: Yeah, I'd never heard of that before. So that was like a year later after, Woodstock and it was the, um, what was it called? The Kickapoo Creek Rock Concert. And it was held in Hayworth, Illinois, and it was on a guy's farm. His name was Dave Lewis. And that was over Memorial Day weekend in 1970. And I guess, yeah, from all accounts, it was a giant, muddy, sloppy disaster.

[00:05:47] Paul: I don't know that anybody heard any music. I know I didn't where I was. So, I stayed with the car cause we were in the middle of the road. So I figured at some point they may open up. But so, I have no idea what happened. 

[00:05:57] Charles: Well, from what I read that he skipped town with like, $250,000 and, uh, he was wanted, you know, to go to, uh, there after him for him to go to jail, but I don't think, they ever caught up with him. It was kind of a money grab kind of thing. So, yeah, I'd never heard of that before. So, I found that pretty interesting. But you never, you never heard any of the bands then. 

[00:06:19] Paul: Yep. That was the live experience. It was a live for me, you know? 

[00:06:24] Charles: You had mentioned that you went to a Deep Purple concert and you, had fallen asleep there. And the reason why that, uh, intrigued me, cause I, I went to see, the Cowboy Junkies a long time ago at the Park West in Chicago in 1988.

[00:06:39] We had, like, front row seats. And my buddy, you know, they're real quiet band. You know, if you're familiar with them and, yeah, he fell asleep and we weren't like, you know, we had like a beer or two, but he, I guess he was really tired and the music was really relaxing and he had fallen asleep. So I wanted to hear your, Deep Purple's a little different. 

[00:07:00] Paul: Once again, I'm out in Schaumburg. I'm taking the train in. They played at The Amphitheater; I believe. If you remember their music, In Rock and Space Trucking. 

[00:07:11] Charles: Yeah. Right. 

[00:07:13] Paul: They were considered to be one of the founders of heavy metal. Uh, there were four records, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple were just really loud guitars.

[00:07:24] They had the organ, you know, Ritchie Blackmore sort of screeched and it so echoed, it was so, so much reverb. I think I just got a, you know, headache or stroke or something, a few beers didn't hurt probably. And, , so my cousin woke me up at the end of the night, Pete, you just missed the concert. Let's go. I think I slept on the ride home but, that was a waste of, whatever money it was and a little bit embarrassing for my date, but oh, well.

[00:07:50] Charles: Yeah, and it happens, right? You, mentioned when you filled out the guest form on our website, you had seen Pink Floyd, The Dark Side of the Moon Tour in, 1973, which I believe was at the International Amphitheater in Chicago on March 7th. I'd seen Pink Floyd on their Animals Tour, and it was like one of the best concerts I've ever been to, and I just wanted to hear your, take on that. 

[00:08:18] Paul: Well, so I was, working at the time and somebody I was working with said, “Hey, we're going.” And we, had listened to earlier albums, Atom Heart Mother, Ummagumma, Meddle, was their preceding record that was Obscured By Clouds, which is more of a TV show. But Meddle was with Echoes was something we listened to a lot.

[00:08:39] And so I can't remember. I was trying to remember how much airplay the record was getting before the show and I, I couldn't, and I talked to a few people, uh, Mark, who was with me said, yeah, no, I can't remember. In other words, I was trying to put it in, was the concert new to us? All the music, or was it something we'd heard? Now we are going to live performance. 

[00:08:59] And we'd never, nobody had seen, it was a British band, Pink Floyd. I mean, if you listen to your stuff, it's pretty, it's non-Dark Side of the Moon, right? It's very experimental. It's very jazzed. Sid Barrett. They did Set the Controls for the Center of the Sun.

[00:09:13] Very, very, esoteric. And then he came out with this very high gloss album, the Alan Parsons producing and we, we, we knew he had been on the Beatles. So we go, Oh, what's, what's this over here. And so, we get there. We had floor seats. You know I hated that, right? 

[00:09:30] It's just flat, right? So, okay. You're on the main floor, but you were flat. So, the further back you got, the less sound differentiation. I remember, you know, it's a very moody album and, you know, very kind of, I'm trying to, trying to think of the word I'll say, uh, atmospheric.

[00:09:44] You know, so they, they get through the record. I believe that they played it pretty much end to end. It wasn't one of those where they interspersed their hits. They didn't really have any hits. Right. So, , but at the end, I remember the, the end of the show, they did no encore, but they, they got to the end of the show.

[00:10:03] They had airplane landing lights mounted up above the stage pointing at the audience. And at that moment they finished, they hit the switch and put like, I read later, something like three times the amount of electricity that the lamps needed ran through, and it just flashed out in like a tenth of a second.

[00:10:22] We were seeing white for a week. It was so bright; it would like seared eyes. So we go, why did they do that? And then later on, I saw Roger Waters in Milwaukee, he's got the pig floating around and, you know, I go, that was a lot different than the, you know, the pig I could take the, uh, landing lights. 

[00:10:38] Charles: Okay. Interesting. The other thing I took note of, was uhm, in 1976, you went to a Wings concert. Was that at the Chicago Stadium and they played like three Paul McCartney and Wings.

[00:10:52] Paul: Yes.

[00:10:53] Charles: And you got an interesting souvenir from that concert and I, wanted to hear the, the story behind that. 

[00:10:59] Paul: So, at the time, McCartney had sort of three eras, right? He had the Beatles, he had first Wings, which is, you know, Band on the Run, and then he had whatever that followed. And he wasn't doing Beatles songs at that time, either contractually or whatever, or he did, you know, he said he didn't want to do it. Right? 

[00:11:15] And that was okay. We didn't go to hear Beatles, John Lennon and Harrison. We went there to hear. Paul McCartney was doing the Band on the Run tour; I believe at that time. I believe we had seats and somebody said, Hey, our seats are kind of near where the bands go in and out.

[00:11:28] So, after the show, we just sort of hung around and by the exit, not knowing what to expect. And sure enough, out comes Paul and Linda and Denny McLean. And, I was waving at him, you know, smiling like that. He tosses me a cigarette pack, which I caught. It's a Senior Service. Which is what they smoked or he smoked for a while.

[00:11:48] I had that thing in a glass case for a while. It's one of the things that did not survive. You know, he just looked at me and flip, flip the thing with a cigarette. There were two cigarettes in it. We smoked them later, like you might do with a, you know, a good cigar and said, wow, that was, that's pretty cool. cough, cough. 

[00:12:02] So, uh, yeah, keeping souvenirs. I didn't have the money to buy t-shirts. I don't know, what the merch situation was now today. But the one thing I did learn that I, I'm sure you know this, right? If you buy a CD from the group from them, that's them. It's not that that's outside of their publisher and all that. So many CDs, they get to sell at the shows. And, so I always tried to buy, well, at the time I, I had some records and, and later on CDs that if I can buy it from the artist, I do it there. Often, they'll even sign them. Dave Mason was, was in, and he had a concert at City Winery. You ever been there? 

[00:12:38] Charles: Yeah, no, I've never been, I've always wanted to go.

[00:12:41] Paul: Saw Leo Kottke there three times. Jim Peterik of Survivor and their Ides of March. They play there a lot and you can have dinner and drinks and you're, seated at a table. So, you're sort of cockeyed looking at it. The acoustics are okay. It's just. I don't know, having, having it in a restaurant isn't the most optimum. But it's a really nice, nice place.

[00:13:03] They typically have a call B groups, you know, either, somebody one step below their prime, you know, in the music world or, or, or smaller new acts come through. Park West was a great acoustic one. So, a lot of small bands there, uh, Romeo Boy, uh, The Waitresses, um, Leo Kottke, I think, uh, we sat four times for Leo Kottke. So, uh, you had asked why does he come up so often?

[00:13:29] Charles: Yeah.

[00:13:29] Paul: You know, that was, a great question. We were just enthralled with his six and 12 string. I had, had a friend, Mario, who was probably the biggest influence on my musical choices. And then my cousin, cause we were always sharing information used to record tapes. "Hey, I just bought The Doors record."

[00:13:47] My cousin didn't have it. So, I'd send them, I'd record three tapes on a reel-to-reel thing. We'd send it in the mail eight days later, he'd get the tape and he'd hear, Oh, wow. You know? And, he'd send me back something like Brian Auger. That's how I learned about Brian Augar. So, we had this little tape system with my cousin that we would, and then we'd mail it to the next one, like a chain letter.

[00:14:05] So everybody got to listen to this. We had these old tape recorders, small, horrible sound, but it's just a way to share, you know, share the music. So, Leo Kottke just popped up. I had enough friends that were interested in him. There was always somebody who would want to go and he played different venues.

[00:14:21] So he played the opera house in Woodstock. He played Park West. He played Old Town Music. He was the resident of Minnesota. So, there was a place up there. Um, whenever we went on vacation or something, we'd look and see if where he was playing and if he was there, we went. And so, my, wife ended up, we almost had him in my backyard.

[00:14:38] His sister was his manager and, my wife met him or her for my 60th birthday, but they couldn't work out, you know, details. He sort of didn't want to do a yard and I don't blame him, but it was so fun, fun, fun to contemplate.

[00:14:53] Charles: Yeah. I've been to, several, house concerts, over the last, I don't know, three years or so. So yeah, that's very popular with people playing in backyards or living rooms, basements, et cetera. So yeah, maybe, maybe you could talk them into it. 

[00:15:11] Paul: I don't know, he's, he's like 80 years old now. What was your favorite concert? I forgot to ask that as we were prepping for the show here.

[00:15:19] Charles: Yeah, I would, have to say, it was the Pink Floyd concert. Soldier Field, 1977 for the, animals Tour was, you know, the first one that really, that really stood out. And then, other groups over the years. I've seen REM bunch when they first were starting out. Jane's Addiction a lot. Those are some of my favorites. The Lumineers. Recently, I've been trying to see some new groups. Saw the Black Pumas at The Salt Shed, not too long ago. Going to see, tomorrow night, this guy by his name, is Mdou Moctar, like the modern day, Jimmy Hendrix, he's from Niger and he's playing at Talia Hall, tomorrow night. My wife's a big Psychedelic Furs fan. So, we go to see them pretty much every time they're in town as well.

[00:16:11] Paul: My, my daughter and I are fans of Keane from the UK so they're coming back in September. So we're up for that. We did a number of Wrigley Field concerts, they're a little better than Soldier Field. So, you had, Billy Joel, what a great, what a great place. The Piano Man and they had a Green Day, Weezer and Fallout Boy effort. And, they were, we were supposed to see Motley Crue. Now these guys have to be, I don't know, older than me, but it turns out they rescheduled because of COVID and they rescheduled on my daughter's wedding night and, um, they were glad I showed up at the wedding and not at the Motley concert.

[00:16:45] Charles: Yeah. That, that would be a tough one to explain, right?

[00:16:49] Paul: Live concerts have gotten much better because of the acoustics. Right. Would you agree? They've gotten much more sophisticated as to what's on stage and what they can play. Because before it used to be, “Oh no, we, we can't go out and do this on, the road.”

[00:17:01] Charles: Yeah. The more advanced, like I watched, Taylor Swift's Eras tour video, the movie.

[00:17:08] Paul: Right.

[00:17:09] Charles: Man, I mean, that is a show, you know, there's a lot going on there, a lot, and it just amazing she could pull that off.

[00:17:18] Paul, I thought that might make a nice segue into your talking about your podcast, An Avid Listener. And I'll let you describe it probably better than I can, but it's like connecting the dots in your shows, you described connecting the dots, with albums, artists, all sorts of stuff.

[00:17:36] Paul: Yeah. So, the example that I gave the most, cause a friend of mine, I was pitching this idea and he said, well, oh, you should do, Michael McDonald. So, do you know Mike Michael McDonald?

[00:17:47] Charles: Yeah. He was part of the Doobie brothers at one point. 

[00:17:50] Paul: His first job was as a backup vocalist on a Steely Dan record.

[00:17:56] Charles: Okay.

[00:17:57] Paul: I didn't know that. Right. So, he played on a song called, Katie Lied. The song is called Chain Lightning and it was on the album Katie Lied. The drummer was Jeff Porcaro. Do you know who Jeff Porcaro is? 

[00:18:09] Charles: I do not. 

[00:18:10] Paul: Toto, Toto Four. Then there was this great guitar lick. There was actually two of them, a jazzy one, which is done by Rick Derringer. Just so out of place for what Rick Derringer would do.

[00:18:20] So Steel Dan had all these people, these great names in one place to play on that one, record, of course it was great, but it was, it was fun, you know, to track that. And same thing with Rod Stewart. He played for Jeff Beck, Truth, Steampacket, and you know, you got his vocal switch, the male vocal.

[00:18:36] So, it's about, connecting those dots. My wife said, are these dots that need to be connected? And I said, for some people, yeah, I think it's, the backstory. Fleetwood Mac before Christie and Nick's joined the band and they were very different, you know, group. So, we explore that and Spotify's platform allows me to have audio interspersed with talking so I can explain what they're going to hear.

[00:18:59] And then I can play different cuts that, do that. That's a little, a little hard to do. So that way you get to hear me explaining a few things. Then we play three or four songs in their entirety. Maybe something, something you haven't heard in a while. For example, I just did 10 years after, and big jazz, and then he did some great, he has an album after, uh, Space and Time, which is the last record that they had a hit off of. He plays with two players from Elvis Presley's backup band, and it's just a swinging boogie, you know, band and people go, I, you know, it's like you listen to a group for a while and then you, things get in the way and you don't follow up. So, I was trying to bring some of that back. 

[00:19:37] Charles: I went all the way back to the very beginning of your podcast, which I thought was kind of cool. And you, I don't want to say warn, but you let people know that you're going to kind of get geeked out a little bit with the equipment that you used and I found that pretty interesting.

[00:19:52] I wouldn't consider myself an audiophile, but I did at one point, spend probably too much money on stereo equipment and, you know, the next day had buyer's remorse, but I can appreciate some of the stuff you were talking about. 

[00:20:06] Paul: I've always had good stereo equipment. But it got deeper as we got into the vinyl versus, digital, controversy. So, I have friends who would swear on vinyl and it's OK. It's certainly a different experience, but I found that when you get to a really well mastered CD, right? The digital, it's got a lot of depth. They tend to be a little bright compared to the vinyl for some reason, which is a little warmer. I don't know what creates that. You know, you hear the little crack, snap, crackle, and pop. I just refurbished two, two turntables. We've been comparing all that.

[00:20:38] And when you, especially when you get into a nice surround sound, fill a room. I had a friend who said, you don't have to play that loud. There's a song where you can hear the silence behind it.

[00:20:47] One of the albums I love, Dean Martin took it, took the master tapes, just mastered it and digitized it. No, Accompaniment, just their vocals as they recorded on, you know, their tracks. I had a guy who was there, uh, servicing the, uh, the part of my basement, the, or rec room remodel.

[00:21:07] He had a tear in his eye because it was just bone showing, Edgar Allen Poe, uh, by Alan Parsons. And I just saw Alan Parsons recently, and that was kind of a, he was always the big studio guy. Didn't want to leave because everything was synthetic. And now he can replicate that because all these moogs and synthesizers, uh, I did a podcast on it. 

[00:21:28] The Moog synthesizer, right? It brought in all that synthesized music, Pet Shop Boys and all that along, right? You want to know who the third person to buy a Moog was? It blows my mind. Keith Emerson bought the second. Mickey Dolenz of the Monkees bought the third of all people and they had played on one of their records. So, it was, yeah, that's, that's where we get geeked out. We go, we go into some of the, the equipment names and, , the Pet Shop Boys and Depeche Mode and others, you know, have used and we've had a lot of discussion. Are you modifying the note, which is like a wawa puddle, or are you creating the note, which is the synthesizer. 

[00:22:07] Charles: And I was going to ask you, Paul, I was listening to episode, uh, 3.2 and it kind of sounded like you were ending the podcast, but obviously, you had more episodes after that. So I was, I was just curious, like, what, what were you retoying with, uh, maybe not doing it anymore?

[00:22:25] Paul: Well, Spotify has been kicking around. I don't think they have a lot of people mixing music, so they're changing the platform up a little bit. Uh, they want to move to a podcast that includes video as well as voice. And so, I'm waiting. They've told me I've got until July 9th that everything I've produced will be remain, but I can't create new, new stuff after July 9th.

[00:22:48] So I've got to look for a new platform. That's a little disappointing, so I'm trying to do as many episodes now as possible. So, it was going to end at the end of May and they extended it through July 9th. We'll see. 

[00:22:59] Charles: So yeah, you'll have to find a, a new platform then, not start over, but just something different.

[00:23:05] Paul: It's been interesting as I've gotten feedback from the people who listen, how personal music choice is and how hard it is to alter somebody, you know, even how many times somebody recommends five songs to play all five, maybe you get to play one or two, right, we've got so much to choose from how we choose is very hard. 

[00:23:22] One of the things that I use a lot is Shazam. Right, so you're in a public place and you hear a song, you go, oh, I like that. They don't announce what the song is. Right. Shazam will pick it up and tell you what the song is. So, that's something I recommend to folks because that's a way to expand your musical horizons a little bit beyond the, the normal playlist.

[00:23:40] Charles: Yeah, I don't use it often, but I know people who have, and it's really unbelievable. Alright, Paul, this has been a real pleasure. Is there anything you would like to add as we come up towards the end of time here?

[00:23:53] Paul: No, I, I think, go out and support your artists, and have a good sound system at home, that augments what you do in the live, you know, live concert. 

[00:24:01] Charles: Yeah, everybody who's listening, Paul's podcast is An Avid Listener. Check it out. He's got some cool stuff there, connections tying things together like he was just talking about. Thanks again, Paul.

[00:24:13] 

Paul:

 Good to see you. Take care. Bye.