This episode features an engaging conversation with Barry and his daughter Emma, highlighting Emma's extraordinary journey as the world's youngest concert photographer. At just eight years old, Emma has already photographed several prominent bands and artists, thanks to the mentorship of her father Barry, a seasoned freelance photographer who began his career in 1997, working for JAM TV. Barry has a rich history in photography, contributing to notable publications such as the Rolling Stone Network, Rollingstone.com, Forbes magazine and wire services like Getty Images and the Associated Press. The podcast delves into Emma's first concert experiences, her progression from using a Polaroid to a professional-grade camera, and the unique souvenirs she's collected along the way, showcasing her growing passion for music and photography. Emma and Barry also provide listeners with some tips for photographing your favorite bands.
In this episode of Seeing Them Live, eight-year-old Emma and her father Barry delve into their concert escapades, sharing their experiences as a father-daughter photography duo. Barry's profession as a professional concert photographer provided Emma with opportunities to experience various concerts from a different angle. Barry started his career as a freelance photographer in 1997 for JAM TV, which quickly became a partnership for the Rolling Stone Network. This was where he eventually became the first photo editor for Rollingstone.com, working there through 2001. His freelance photography work also includes wire services for Getty Images and the Associated Press. He also contributes to live music publications as well as other areas of interest, including portraits, food, restaurants, and special events.
Emma’s adventure begins with a memorable experience at City Winery in Chicago on Father's Day, 2021. Emma brought her Polaroid camera along, capturing special moments and collecting souvenirs. At the concert, Emma received an autographed photo from the singer Tiffany, marking the start of her souvenir collection. Later, Barry surprised Emma with tickets to see Mike Campbell and the Dirty Knobs at Park West, where they enjoyed a front-row experience and received guitar picks as additional mementos.
The excitement continued as Emma attended an Olivia Rodrigo concert at the Aragon Ballroom, discovering the artist through a video game. Barry's surprise tickets to the concert delighted Emma, who received memorable souvenirs, including a guitar pick and flowers left on stage. Emma also attended her first Duran Duran concert at the United Center in Chicago, although she couldn't enter the pit due to technical constraints. Despite this, Emma enjoyed the show with Barry and their writer, adding a unique perspective to Barry's concert photography work.
Emma's presence during concerts added depth to Barry's work, capturing moments that might have been missed otherwise. Their adventures culminated in Emma's attendance at Lollapalooza, where she met band members backstage. Emma and Barry discuss other live music experiences, including Guns N' Roses at Wrigley Field and Al Jardine's performance at the Schaumburg September Fest. Emma shares her excitement about receiving a guitar pick from Duff McKagan at the Guns N' Roses concert after catching his attention with the rock and roll sign.
Transitioning to Al Jardine's performance, Barry highlights their special connection with the artist and their collaboration on photography. Emma, using a Canon digital single lens reflex camera, captured memorable shots of Al Jardine and his band, learning the importance of composition and technique. Barry emphasizes the significance of focusing on key band members and anticipating moments to capture compelling shots.
Their conversation also touches on Emma's evolving photography skills, from using a point-and-shoot Polaroid to a professional-grade camera, guided by her father's expertise. They discuss Emma's approach to concert photography, including her focus on the band and strategies for capturing dynamic moments. Additionally, they share insights into concert souvenirs, including t-shirts and vinyl records, and reflect on the unique experiences of attending concerts and red-carpet events together.
Overall, the episode showcases Emma and Barry's passion for live music and photography, their shared experiences, and the joy of creating lasting memories together.
[00:00:00] Charles: Emma Brecheisen is most likely the world's youngest concert photographer. At just eight years old, she has been in the photo pit taking photographs for such bands as Jane's Addiction, El Jardin from the Beach Boys, and for a Led Zeppelin cover band, Led Zeppelin II. Emma has also seen a variety of bands live, including Mike Campbell and the Dirty Knobs, Olivia Rodrigo, The Black Crows, Joan Jett and the Blackhearts, Duran Duran, The Pretenders, and Guns N Roses. Concert photography is guided by her father, Barry, who started his career as a freelance photographer in 1997 for JAM TV, which quickly became a partnership for the Rolling Stone Network. This was where he eventually became the first photo editor for Rollingstone.com, working there through 2001. His freelance photography work also includes wire services for Getty Images and the Associated Press, and contributes to live music publications as well as other areas of interest, including portraits, food, restaurants, and special events. Emma and Barry, welcome to Seeing Them Live.
[00:01:20] Emma and Barry: Thank you.
[00:01:21] Charles: I thought we would, uh, go in chronological order guys, like we usually do, with Emma's first concert, which was, I guess, were you there? You describe it, Barry. And I think it's a great description as a kind of bring your daughter to work function, which I, I think is really cool. So Tiffany was playing at the City Winery. Is that correct?
[00:01:44] Emma and Barry: Yeah, City Winery in Chicago, and it was on Father's Day in 2021.
[00:01:48] Charles: Yeah, and Emma, you, uh, seems like you brought along your camera, right?
[00:01:52] Emma and Barry: I did, a Polaroid camera.
[00:01:54] Charles: Okay, so you were taking Polaroid pictures at, oh, I see it there, it's like a white camera?
[00:02:00] Emma and Barry: It's Kind of a Leica almost looking camera. It's a little retro Polaroid like camera.
[00:02:06] Charles: That's really cool. So you were taking pictures along with your, your dad, and this is also where you picked up your first souvenir, right?
[00:02:16] Emma and Barry: Yes.
[00:02:17] Charles: You want to describe that?
[00:02:19] Emma and Barry: I took a picture of her, and she was nice enough to sign it.
[00:02:23] Charles: So you got an autographed picture, that's really neat.
[00:02:26] Emma and Barry: That's Polaroids, right? Makes it easy.
[00:02:28] Charles: Yeah.
[00:02:29] Emma and Barry: Oh yeah, I was doing the portrait session, and, um, she was shooting along with me the whole time and then I, she got her little private session.
[00:02:36] Charles: Nice. Now, your dad, sometimes he, uh, pulls surprises on you, right?
[00:02:42] Emma and Barry: Yes, he does.
[00:02:43] Charles: So the, the first, surprise, you thought you were going on a, is it a food shoot with him? Maybe? Was that what it was?
[00:02:50] Emma and Barry: They're called Eater Shoots. And for me, that's not that fun.
[00:02:54] Charles: Just looking at food and stuff, right? But it turned out to be something different. You're a, he was telling us that you're a big, Tom Petty fan and a big Beatles fan.
[00:03:05] Emma and Barry: Yes.
[00:03:06] Charles: So, he actually surprised you and took you to see Mike Campbell and the Dirty Knobs at the Park West.
[00:03:14] Emma and Barry: Yeah, it was very fun.
[00:03:15] Charles: I bet. And you, you guys, uh, had like a booth, but you made, made it kind of close to the stage, right? Like right up front, I think. Right?
[00:03:23] Emma and Barry: Front row.
[00:03:24] Charles: Front row. And so, your dad was taking some, some pictures and you were, uh, hanging out with some of some of the women up front, kind of keeping an eye on you.
[00:03:35] Emma and Barry: Yeah. You know, that's the challenge with bringing her along. My writer that I work a lot with, Jim, has a feature with Forbes, it's an entertainment, well, it's a business feature, well, it's an entertainment feature with a business slant. So, he's really good that if, when I have to work to keep an eye on her, but, you know, general admission, GA shows are challenging if there's no photo pit. So, I wasn't sure how much she could be around me. But yeah, it worked out.
[00:03:59] Charles: Yeah, it worked out too. You, you picked up a couple more souvenirs, didn't yah?
[00:04:04] Emma and Barry: Yes, at the end of the show, this guy was wrapping up all the things for the show And he was, passing out guitar picks and he passed me one. He passed me a Mike Campbell one, but then he said, I can give you something even better. And it was, um, a Tom Petty one, and that was from their last show.
[00:04:25] Well, wait, you got a, you got a better story than that. Hold on. So, so the crowd demanded you get a set list, right? And then he said, oh, I have a guitar pick for you. So, he gives you a Mike Campbell guitar pick, right? And then he goes, hold on, I can do one better. It's basically, it's, it's Mike's guitar tech.
[00:04:43] It's who it was. And he goes into his little bin and he. And he goes around and he comes up with a Tom Petty guitar pick. He hands it to you, and then you hand it to me, and what happens? And he says, hey, don't take that. And then you say, well, I'm her father. I said, hold on. So, he thought I was stealing it from a six year old or however old.
[00:05:04] So it got to this really weird moment, and then he goes, okay. Sorry. Okay. Yes, of course. You're, you're her dad. So, yeah, it got weird for a minute. So, it was literally the last Tom Petty tour.
[00:05:15] Charles: Wow.
[00:05:15] Emma and Barry: That was pretty cool. That was, I mean, believe me, I'm jealous of that guitar pick.
[00:05:19] Charles: Yeah. You're, you got a, quite a collection there, Emma and it just, it keeps growing. So, about a couple of weeks later, your dad pulled this on you again. Didn't he?
[00:05:27] Emma and Barry: Yes.
[00:05:28] Charles: You thought you were going, uh, on another, I guess a boring photo shoot of something else, and it turned out to be Olivia Rodrigo at the Aragon Ballroom.
[00:05:38] Emma and Barry: Yes, that was my favorite band at the time.
[00:05:41] Well, tell us about how you, you learned about her. I learned about her from this video game called Just Dance. It was one of her, famous songs called Good For You. And then, when I went to school that next morning, um, my friend, my, one of my best friends, Delilah, she also told me about her, too, because she's a really big fan of her.
[00:06:02] So this is crazy. I'm getting introduced to bands from her, and then she's getting in, you know, back in the day, it would be radio, it would be MTV, and now it's a video game.
[00:06:11] Charles: That's a good point. You're, you're way ahead on the curve there, Emma, because, uh, my daughter wants to go see Olivia Rodrigo in the next couple weeks at the United Center. Yeah, those, those tickets are expensive, and it's just a giant place, as you know, so you saw her at the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago, which is a really small, much smaller venue. And what was that like? You got to be with your dad, right? For three songs, I think.
[00:06:41] Emma and Barry: Uh, yeah. Yeah, so, that show was complicated. It was sold out. So that show happened in April of 2022, but in 2021, they went on sale in December, completely sold out. Those venues were way too small at that point. Then I think a month before that show, it was the Grammys and she, uh, she won for new artist and new album and all this.
[00:07:02] So she's, yeah, for, for her first, uh, debut album. I mean, she's already huge. And so those tickets were going on sale for like a thousand dollars and up. And now I have to figure out how to get her into the show. And if I shoot the show, that's great, but she's going to be, she's going to be more mad at me that I went and she didn't go so, so it was a challenging.
[00:07:24] So my, my first thing was. Who do I know? I'm not trying to get anything for free, but a lot of times tickets with, promoter, they'll go on sale because they don't, you know, they don't need it for, they don't go to the radio or whatever. And there's extra ones. So I, I put in that bid to let me know. And so the show was Friday and I found out Thursday, so I didn't know that.
[00:07:46] So part of the reason why I make them surprises, if I can't get her in, I don't want her to know. So that's always a challenge. And, uh, and so anyway, got the ticket. Even though we didn't need it in the end, because in the end, security saw us and just escorted us right through the crowd. So, we never scanned our tickets.
[00:08:04] Better to have that ticket, I'm more than happy to pay for it. And we got there, somebody said security wants to talk to me and ended up being head of security that I've known for 20 plus years. And he said, what do you need? And I said, well, is there a place to put my daughter so she's safe and can watch the show?
[00:08:22] So next thing you know, we're in the box, box upstairs. And so we're all secure now. I can breathe. And it's time for me to shoot. So I go into, it wasn't the photo pit, actually. They made a shoot from the soundboard for this one, for whatever reason. And so I got into the soundboard and I can see Emma right up to my left.
[00:08:40] And I go to the head of, uh, that's handling the photo for Olivia. And I said, "Hey, you can say, no, but is it possible for my daughter to hang out here for our three songs?" And she goes, "Of course." So, I, so I go and grab her, I bring her in. And that person was, even took photos of us.
[00:08:58] Charles: Yeah. And then you, uh, you picked up more souvenirs, didn't you, Emma?
[00:09:02] Emma and Barry: Yes. So, after the show, we went to the, the stage and... And, the person on stage, he gave me the set list. He also, um, gave me some confetti, and fans were also giving me some.
[00:09:15] Charles: Oh, nice. That's nice.
[00:09:18] Emma and Barry: And then in addition, he goes, you know what, I have one more thing on stage. And what was that, Emma? That was flowers that Olivia Rodrigo didn't take.
[00:09:26] She left it on stage. Somebody threw it on the stage, and actually I have photos of her holding these, actually. So that's kind of cool. She just left him on stage and he's like, you know, I have something else for you. So yes, random weird souvenirs.
[00:09:38] Charles: One of your favorite bands besides Olivia Rodrigo is, uh, is Duran Duran. Is that, is that correct?
[00:09:45] Emma and Barry: Yes.
[00:09:46] Charles: And, and you've seen them a couple times, right?
[00:09:49] Emma and Barry: Yes. My first time was... It was that same year, later on in August at the United Center.
[00:09:56] Charles: Okay.
[00:09:57] Emma and Barry: Chief was, uh, opening band for Duran Duran. I really wanted to come into the pit, but he told me I couldn't because the, the video people, for the big screen, were just running all around... Sometimes it's complicated. Sometimes it's really tight. Sometimes it's really loose. Most of the time it's tight. And for this particular show, uh, actually both Duran Duran shows that we've gone to now, they have a video track. So, the camera guy is just floating back and forth from stage, you know, left and right.
[00:10:29] And, uh, and they're, they're up on the jumbotrons, what these shots are, and so you have to move because that train's coming and they will run you over, uh, or they'll throw you out of that pit. They don't care. It doesn't matter. Their, their agenda is more important than you. It is what it is. And so, yeah, there's absolutely no way she's going to get in that pit.
[00:10:46] But she was a little frustrated. But with that said, again, that's where my writer comes into play. So she's sitting in the seats with my writer. The Sun Times, uh, writer comes up and, my writer, Jim, goes, Oh, hey, this is, uh, Barry's daughter, Emma. You wanna tell that story?
[00:11:01] Yes. And she said, What's your favorite song? I think she would have said that I said, Girls on Film or Hungry Like a Wolf. But I said, Planet Earth. And she gives a look. Like what?
[00:11:15] Charles: That's a deep track.
[00:11:16] Emma and Barry: And Ordinary World. Ordinary World. Yeah. And then my writer goes, Yep. Barry, no, that's, you're out.
[00:11:23] Charles: Nice. So, well, yeah, maybe one of these days you'll, you'll get in the, uh, get in the pit at Duran Duran.
[00:11:30] Emma and Barry: They're, they’re still touring. So why not? They're still putting out albums.
[00:11:33] Charles: Yeah, exactly. So, uh, I don't know, Barry and Emma, I thought we might move along to, um, I don't know. You got this Black Crowes show at the Ravinia and you, um, you were in the aisle on that one taking photographs, Barry, I believe.
[00:11:48] Emma and Barry: I guess that would technically be the second show she shadowed me. So, Mike Campbell and the Dirty Knobs, she shadowed me a little bit, especially at the end. I mean, you know, technically our, the rules as a concert photographer are the first three songs, no flash unless you're working with the band or on tour with them.
[00:12:05] I've been working a lot more with the bands doing portraits, doing features, so I'm getting, um, I'm getting back to get those, advantages because I mean, as we all know, the best things happen after the first three songs or the last three songs. Really? Right. The band's really chilling. It really depends.
[00:12:21] So for the Dirty Knobs, that venue Park West is kind of loose when there's no photo pit. They don't, they don't really, enforce the first three songs rule. So, that's kind of how I was feeling it out. So, she's hanging out with the suburban soccer moms who are the sweetest people in the world at that one.
[00:12:39] And then by the end, during the encore, I brought her in. So we were right in front and shooting and there's photos of her with Mike Campbell behind her. So anyway, so that's the first one. So you jump to Joan, I'm sorry, you jump to the Black Crows.
[00:12:51] Charles: Mm hmm.
[00:12:52] Emma and Barry: Same thing. So, there's no photo pit at Ravinia. This was one where I was able to bring, um, her mom, my wife, Lauren. And Lauren, Lauren's an old huge Black Crowes fan, so am I. And their new stuff coming out is amazing, actually, so I'm pretty excited about it. And so yeah, so it was kind of a family event. So, we had our tickets and our seats, but again, because we're in the aisle, and she's small, she's short, we can kind of squirm around. So yeah, she hung out with me for those, for those songs.
[00:13:22] Charles: Did you like the Black Crowes, Emma? Were they entertaining?
[00:13:25] Emma and Barry: Yeah, they were good. Yeah, they're old school rock and roll, right?
[00:13:29] Charles: Well, I thought we would, maybe jump to Lollapalooza 2022. You guys, uh, well, you were the photographer, right, Barry?
[00:13:38] Emma and Barry: Yeah, I'm shooting, I was shooting for a wire service, I was shooting for, uh, Getty Images, and then I was also shooting for Forbes. And you know, I have a whole history with Lollapalooza, it starts back in 2003. Ended up being the last tour photographer for their last, touring festival. And then, you know, you go from 2003 to, uh, being permanently here in Chicago in 2005.
[00:14:02] So I have a really good relationship. In 2003, I was on the Jane's Addiction tour bus, or our crew bus, I should say. So that's my first meeting with Perry and his wife, Eddie. And then being in Chicago, you know, I've had this long relationship. And so, you know, it's been, it's been quite a while shooting with Lollapalooza and they've always said ever since I've had Emma, like, when are you going to bring her to the show?
[00:14:23] When are you going to bring her to the show? Well, she's waiting, you know, and the other part too is like, and can I bring my wife? Because I need, I need somebody to, you know, you know, make sure she's okay when I'm actually working. So, jump to, um, 2022, she's ready, right? She's ready at this point, you're what?
[00:14:40] You're, um, you're seven, is that what you are? And, uh, because you're eight now, but you're going to be nine this year, so I think that's right. So I finally said, hey, can I actually take you up on that? And it was the last day, and in particular, the reason why she wanted to go was because of, yet another band she introduced me to, which is...
[00:14:57] Måneskin.
[00:15:00] And I heard it on the radio in my mom's car.
[00:15:03] I think they won that Eurovision, if I remember right.
[00:15:06] Charles: Right? Yeah. X Factor or something like that.
[00:15:10] Emma and Barry: Yeah, something like that. And so again, another band. So they were playing right before, uh, Perry's other band, which is Porno for Pyros. So I thought, okay, well, that's perfect. I can bring her to, I can bring them to see Måneskin.
[00:15:21] Uh, and her mom's really into Måneskin too. And then also hang out for Porno for Pyros. And so, we hung out in the back for Måneskin. And then, and then before Porno for Pyros came on, we went backstage to go say hi to everybody at what's called... Perry has, there was an artist’s village back there.
[00:15:41] And then there's a separate one just for Perry. And then why don't you tell us about that whole experience? Sure. I was hanging out with Perry and Perry's wife, Eddie. And I also hung out with their dog. That's true. And then... Introduced you to a lot of the band members, right?
[00:15:58] Steven Perkins, Peter, the guitarist. And then there was a surprise person . Which was Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins. He's going to play with Porno Papyrus. Yeah. He's going to make a special appearance. And how do you know about Smashing Pumpkins music? Actually, how do you know about Smashing Pumpkins? Joan Jett, Def Leppard, all these bands? From a game called Rock Band or a Guitar Hero. Yeah. So, I have the old Wii video game system, and I was able to get that thing running when you were, God, I don't know, you were five? Four? Actually younger. Yeah, something like that. Because there's a photo of you playing the, uh, the Hoffner bass from uh, the Beatles, uh, rock band.
[00:16:40] So she's learned all this music, so that's why she's a fan of Joan Jett. That's why she knows. Smashing Pumpkins. And so, what's the Smashing Pumpkins song you were playing? Today. Song Today, and walked up and told Billy all about that.
[00:16:54] Charles: That's nice. That's an interesting way to get exposed to some music.
[00:16:58] Emma and Barry: It's sad that that isn't happening anymore. And it's because of the hardware, the physical hardware, you have to have the guitars and things like that to play it. But otherwise, it's too bad because it is, yet another avenue. Like I said, it's video game. She's learning it from video games. You'll learn it from You Tube.
[00:17:14] There's way different ways to learn and find music nowadays then we were as a kid. And that's a really good example. I mean, that's she knows Queens of the Stone Age because of that. She knows, oh, you know, Ozzy Osbourne because of that, even though you, you thought Ozzy was a woman playing it, yeah.
[00:17:30] Charles: So, you met a lot of people there. You, you also met the drummer from Metallica, I believe as well. Right.
[00:17:37] Emma and Barry: So, where we put a lot of this stuff is I make a scrapbook for her. Yeah, some of her credentials and things like that.
[00:17:44] Charles: Wow. Nice. Those are great keepsakes. My goodness. Well, did you want to move on? I was going to say guys to, uh, you went to see Guns and Roses at Wrigley Field, right? In August of 2023. So that was, last year. And, uh, Emma picked up another souvenir at that show as well. You want to, you want to talk about that, Emma?
[00:18:08] Emma and Barry: So, one of the band members, they saw me doing the rock and roll sign. Well, so let's back up for one sec. So that was that week where you could cut the air like a knife. One of those hot days last year was really awful. And so, it wasn't selling very well for obvious reasons. And so they were giving them away.
[00:18:28] So my security guy, buddy that works at the Aragon said, you wouldn't want some tickets, would you? And I'm like, okay. Right. Why not? I figured the worst-case scenario, we leave. But a cold front came in, uh, and so The Pretenders opened, right? You saw The Pretenders, Chrissy Hine, and then, uh, and then it was time for Guns N Roses.
[00:18:48] And so we had what was called, uh, field tickets. So that's literally general admission, but it's absolutely in front row. And because of that weather, it was pretty loose. So, we were pretty lucky on that. And yeah, no, we stayed for the whole show and then, and then during that, she's at, right at the, the pit fence. And what are you doing?
[00:19:07] I'm doing the rock and roll sign.
[00:19:09] Charles: The rock and roll sign. Okay.
[00:19:10] Emma and Barry: And then the bass player, Duff McKagan notices her and starts smiling.
[00:19:15] And then throws a guitar pick or yeah, a guitar pick and, I couldn't find it.
[00:19:21] It disappears in the darkness.
[00:19:23] And then we just did like, what? Like, we can't find it.
[00:19:27] And then...
[00:19:28] He signals to, to, to somebody on stage and that person hand delivers it.
[00:19:34] Yes. And then later on, we did find the other guitar pick and we gave it to...
[00:19:39] To give it to another fan. Yeah, I can't believe how, how you never know how much they can see you, especially in the crowd, but he clearly was very...
[00:19:46] No kidding.
[00:19:47] And then, and then later on, I, I got you in center front for November Rain.
[00:19:52] Yes.
[00:19:52] I mean, she doesn't even know how cool some of this stuff is. I mean, I either, I'm a little jaded at this point, but even for this show, it's like You know, Axl Rose is, I don't know how many feet in front of you, and it's like, wow, I never knew how blue his eyes were. So, you have those moments.
[00:20:07] Charles: That's really something else. Another great story. Then after that, let's see, what do I have? I've got so many notes here, guys.
[00:20:15] Emma and Barry: Yeah, I know. After that, we went back to Duran Duran again and had a blast at Northerly Island. Chic again opened up and Bastille, and then we went to Riot Fest. Her mom wanted to see Foo Fighters. And then we jumped to September for Al Jardine. There is a end-of-summer, Schaumburg, September fest. So, it's in the suburbs.
[00:20:37] And Al, I'd worked with, I think it was a year ago when he played City Winery and I did a portrait session with them and they liked it so much they ended up buying it to use for promotion. So, I ended up having a real good, uh, relationship with Al, and we'd been talking about doing more stuff with his manager, his manager, Spud. Can't make these names up and Spud is a former radio guy, online personality or on-air personality in L.A. So that's where Spud came from. I didn't get the whole reason. I don't think he's shaped like a potato, but a really great guy.
[00:21:12] And so I, so I saw that he was coming, you know, to the suburbs. And so, we ended up hooking it all up with photos and then so you all we shot the opener, which was a cover band that was From Heart to Heartbreaker. So it was a band Heart, they were covering and Pat Benatar, which is kind of fun. You met him afterwards and talk to them and then it was time for Al Jardine. And this is what? This is the second time you ended up using a real camera. So why don't you show this thing?
[00:21:43] Charles: It's a Canon digital single lens reflex camera.
[00:21:48] Emma and Barry: Yeah. And this is now a mirrorless. So, mirrorless is getting easier and easier. It's almost like cheating to some degree. To some degree. Problem with concert photography is that you're shooting into lights. And so lights are doing all types of weird things. So you kind of still have to override some of the lighting because of that, because it wants to make it darker than it is, cause it's trying to balance the light that's going right in your face.
[00:22:12] Charles: Yeah.
[00:22:13] Emma and Barry: And of course, the bottom line is, uh, composition and everything. And so, the one thing that I'm doing, especially whether it's at the Led Zeppelin II shows, and even this one is I'm teaching Emma how to shoot.
[00:22:26] So the reason why Led Zeppelin and Al Jardine is that we have the whole set. So, it's not just pointing, pointing to the subject and shooting. You've got to learn a lot of different things. You also got to learn how to hold it. So what have I taught you?
[00:22:39] You tell me to put your elbows to your chest. And when you're taking the photo, try not to breathe. Because then, um...
[00:22:47] Why is that? Why, what are you trying to do?
[00:22:49] You're trying to keep it steady.
[00:22:51] Charles: When I saw you guys at that Led Zeppelin II concert, yeah, I was amazed, Emma, at how you could handle that camera. It's pretty big. That's a big camera for someone, you know, who's eight years old. But you were, man, you were all over it. You were taking all sorts of pictures and, um, that was, that was really something else.
[00:23:12] And the, at this Al Jardine photo shoot, your dad was saying that, uh, he was kind of, uh, posing for you while he was playing a little bit. Right. He's like mugging for the camera, so to speak.
[00:23:25] Emma and Barry: Yeah.
[00:23:26] What was funny, because I don't think he was aware that she was going to be in the pit. And, uh, you, I saw him at one point her catch his eye. And then it was like a sparkle. It was really Al Jardine's sparkle.
[00:23:38] And I was trying to focus on him because when he noticed me, he started to do poses like he'll point once in a while, or he'll just do like funny poses.
[00:23:48] Like his eyes, he would just like, you know, yeah.
[00:23:52] And, sometimes I focused on his, um, son, but most of the time I just focused on him.
[00:23:59] Yeah, so his son is actually the one that's doing the, uh, Brian Wilson vocal. So yeah, so it's a, it's a dad daughter show. But the one thing I forgot, so I started really focusing on those two and that's also what I tell her too. Here's the main people to focus on. It helps sometimes and I can't always do it, but it's good to know your band. It's good to do your research. But I also kind of neglected in my brain, um, like the next day or so, Spud emailed me and said, "Oh, you know, when can we see the photos?" And then I sent him, he's like, oh, you have this person and this person, because it's not just called Al Jardine. It's called Al Jardine and the Endless Summer Band.
[00:24:34] Charles: Okay.
[00:24:35] Emma and Barry: Kinda forgot about that. And they were like, "Hey, do you have any shots of the drummer or the keyboardist?" And I, I said, wait, but I know who does.
[00:24:45] Charles: You're backup photographer.
[00:24:47] Emma and Barry: She covered my butt on that one. Yeah. I mean, it wouldn't have been the worst, but I'm like, "Yes I do." So, they like the photos so much, they, when, you know, social media, promoting that show and everything, uh, you had some photos in there too, didn't you?
[00:25:00] Yeah.
[00:25:00] Charles: That's really cool. Yeah, I saw some of those photos are really, really great photographs. Really nice. Yeah, I saw you guys at the Led Zeppelin II concert, and again, I was just amazed at Emma, she was very serious, taking lots of pictures, there was no messing around. Yeah, and you guys were really, rocking it, so to speak.
[00:25:24] But, uh, I was gonna maybe ask you just some general questions, Emma. I like the progression too, of like, you go from a point and shoot, Polaroid camera to now something that's pretty much like your dad uses, right? This single lens reflex.
[00:25:41] Emma and Barry: Emma, Emma, what, what happened? Why, why, why the change? What? Was there a moment?
[00:25:46] Yes. So, um, at one of the concerts, I bring my Polaroid again, but he forgot that we had to charge it. And, it ran out of battery. Then I'm like, then I just had to sit down and do nothing basically.
[00:25:58] So, well, but it was, yes, that was, that was a daddy failure. I was at Jane's Addiction opening up for Smashing Pumpkins at United Center. And Jane's is another band we play a lot. Yes, you couldn't do that. But what was the other problem? What's the other thing you were noticing with, with that Polaroid?
[00:26:15] Oh, that you can't zoom in. You get to a certain point. And that's it.
[00:26:20] So she's looking at my photos like, well, I can't get closer. How do I get closer? The other thing too, is that, you know, Polaroids only have what, 10 photos, I think. And then we got to put new film. So, I'm trying to shoot and she's like, daddy, I need new film. I'm like, Oh my God. So, and then also too, where do you put the photos while you're shooting? It's a, it's a whole thing.
[00:26:36] Charles: Yeah.
[00:26:37] Emma and Barry: After that, it occurred to me, we went home at some point and I've said, you know, here's, here's a camera. You know, can you handle this? And so, we figured out which lenses she could use that were lighter than others.
[00:26:50] And some are really, it's like taking me down.
[00:26:53] Yeah, you would think. Like the 16 to 35 millimeter, which is a wider lens would be a light lens, but it's not the 70 to 200, which is one of the bigger zoom lenses. I have is the new one is really, really light. So that works really well for you. You would think it would be heavier, yes, but it's not. Yeah. And so that was the thing. So that was the change. That's why I went. Okay. Let's see if you can do this if I, if I need that lens or that camera, I'll grab it from you briefly. You can use the other one so ends up being that whole thing. So that's what happened there with that show. So, we had, we had to change it around and I, you know, I want her to be happy with her photos.
[00:27:32] Charles: Yeah. No, that's a professional grade camera.
[00:27:36] Emma and Barry: Yeah, she's, she's using one of the high, high-end Canons now. I mean, the, uh, the R5 mirrorless is a quite expensive camera.
[00:27:45] Charles: Do you, uh, talk about this with your friends at school? Does that come up at all?
[00:27:50] Emma and Barry: No, not really. Unless it's a band that they, um, like or they listen to. But otherwise, no.
[00:27:58] Charles: No. Okay.
[00:27:59] Emma and Barry: Yeah, you know, you figure their mom may know Joan Jett. I mean, again, I can't emphasize enough Rock Band and Guitar Hero. They really bring you back to some of these songs that you don't, I mean, she doesn't listen to the radio that much.
[00:28:14] Only when I'm in Mom's car.
[00:28:16] Only when your mom's car, cause I never listened to the radio. I'm always streaming. I still have an iPod connected into that car with some stuff that I can't stream.
[00:28:24] Charles: Do you buy concert t-shirts and, and stuff? Do you ever wear them to school or not really?
[00:28:30] Emma and Barry: Sometimes, yeah.
[00:28:31] You know, I've been pretty good. When I was growing up going to concerts, I had to have the program and the concert t-shirt and all that. And the concert t-shirt had to have the cities and, you know, and the tour in the back. And so, yeah, you know, I've, I've gotten some of them for her just because they're cool and yeah, it kind of brings me back a little bit.
[00:28:51] I mean, Mike Campbell was a funny one. So those same suburban moms were so excited and so like motherly to you that they bought you the vinyl. And so, yeah, we, they also were selling that night a limited silkscreen signed by all the band of, uh, everybody from the Dirty Knob. So we got that framed, so that's up on our wall.
[00:29:13] So, yeah, we get a lot of, a little bit. Duran Duran, because Duran Duran, the first time we went, we got the program. Did we buy the shirt? Or, you know, sometimes, honestly, I like the shirts better on Amazon nowadays.
[00:29:25] No, we didn't.
[00:29:26] Didn't buy the shirt. Okay. Olivia Rodrigo, we bought the shirt. We bought Mike Campbell and I think that's it.
[00:29:33] Charles: Okay. I was also going to ask, is it hard? I know your dad kind of mentioned this in some of our back and forth, but do you ever get, distracted by the crowd when you're photographing? It didn't look like it. You look like you're mostly focused on the band.
[00:29:49] Emma and Barry: Yeah.
[00:29:50] Charles: Do you have any advice that you might give to, uh, you know, somebody like myself, who's just has their cell phone taking pictures and trying to zoom in and, and stuff. Do you have any advice for us?
[00:30:03] Emma and Barry: A little bit. I say to just really, um, focus on the band. If anybody's trying to, like, queue you on accident, just ignore basically.
[00:30:14] Charles: Okay.
[00:30:15] Emma and Barry: Well, what, what should he shoot on stage? Who do you focus on?
[00:30:19] Usually you focus on the singer and the guitarist. The drummer is a little bit hard to get because the band's all...
[00:30:26] I always joke, the drummer is the one that always gets screwed. Cause it's, they're, they're almost impossible. And not only in the back, you're off. They're often in the shadows too. They're not always lit up.
[00:30:37] Douglas: I can verify that. I play in a band called Wrought Iron Soul and our drummer is always complaining that in any videos that we shoot, or whatever, that he's always behind someone else. A lot of the places that we play in very small clubs. So, it's very difficult. We recently played at a place called The Matrix, which is in Naperville.
[00:30:59] And that's a nice big wide stage and he was so happy because he could actually be seen in some of the shots, you know, and I'm the bass player. So, I, I kind of don't care if people catch me or not.
[00:31:13] Emma and Barry: Yeah, you're a typical bass player. You're the one, it's, you're kind of in the shadows. You're just doing your own thing. Yeah, no, that's funny you say that. Yeah, bassists are often like that. Unless you're like Eric Avery with Jane's Addiction. He's like a beast. Remember that Emma?
[00:31:28] Yeah.
[00:31:28] He was like a caveman. He's just...
[00:31:30] Douglas: Or like Flea and Red Hot Chili Peppers or something like that.
[00:31:33] Emma and Barry: Which you just, you saw a lot of pollutants of this past year. Yeah. They were great. They were great. Yes, for sure. Well, and so what else do you try to do? What's what I always tell you about what kind of shots to look for?
[00:31:45] Usually for the mic, not to be in their face because otherwise It doesn't even look like they're doing anything.
[00:31:54] Yeah, separation. Separation of the mic if you can. I just saw a recent photo of Mike Watt who's playing with Porno for Pyro, and the mic is literally, it looks like it's...
[00:32:03] It's in, it's where his nose is.
[00:32:05] It's his nose and eye. It's like, what are you doing? This is why I still have a job.
[00:32:09] It doesn't seem like it should be that obvious. It shouldn't be that complicated, but apparently it isn't always that obvious how people shoot. Uh, and then what else? What is this? What do I always tell you to do? The two, the two shot. Tell us about the two-shot. What's the two-shot?
[00:32:23] Their...
[00:32:24] So obviously you're going to focus on, on each individual member and some members may be more important. Some members may just be original and the other one is just a touring or a session guy. So, but right. But the session, but the two shot is. Now, like, say it's, let's just go with Led Zeppelin, you know, you got Robert Plant and Jimmy Page.
[00:32:44] So your two shot is photographing the two of them together, right? So that's where it, where it, where it's important. So, you get, get your basic shots and then you start getting your two shots. Robert Plant with Jimmy, and things like that.
[00:32:55] Plus, they'll probably do full poses together, too.
[00:32:58] They, well, that's the goal, right? Yeah. And then, but sometimes they don't want to be anywhere near each other.
[00:33:04] Charles: Yeah, no, it's a whole fluid environment. It's changing constantly. So, I would imagine that's, that's pretty challenging to, to capture it. A split second, you know?
[00:33:16] Emma and Barry: You were telling me this last night, that you could, who was it that you could predict a moment?
[00:33:21] So, what I say is that you will always, usually if they're about to do a cool move, you can kind of predict if they're about to like move a hand movement or something, or they do like, three claps or something like that, and then they'll do their cool move, that's what you also want to get.
[00:33:40] Yeah. You start, well, if you're shooting them enough or, or you pay attention, they seem to repeat themselves on, on certain moves and things. Like, I was telling, Emma was telling me that last night and it reminded me of Audio Slave when I was touring with him in 2003 with that last Lollapalooza.
[00:33:57] Camarillo had a move that he would do every time before he jumped. And before he jumped, he would pounce his foot three times and his guitar up in the air. And that third time you knew he was going to jump in the air after that. There are those moments, and they're not conscious of doing those things, but they do them every time, or they literally do them for a certain song.
[00:34:18] Like with that was another good example. I forget what the song was. If they played it during our first three, at the end of that song, Sting and, um, and Andy Summers were actually absolutely going to jump at the very end of that song. Happened every single time. There's no question. Yeah, it's weird, but those are the things that happen, and that's what Emma was saying too, right? That, you know, you were, you, you started to see that?
[00:34:40] Yeah.
[00:34:41] Charles: You see certain patterns that they kind of go through. Yeah, well, that's interesting. I'll, uh, I'll take note of that next, next time I'm trying to zoom in on my, my iPhone. Anything else that you guys want to chat about before we wrap up?
[00:34:56] Emma and Barry: I mean, as far as, uh, your photos right now, Emma, they're just mostly in your scrapbook. Right? Maybe we'll make, a website at some point.
[00:35:03] Charles: Okay. Yeah, I'd definitely like to, like to see that. Yeah, Barry, you mentioned these notes. Emma has, I have more notes on Emma's concert experiences than I do sometimes when we're interviewing people who've been going to concerts for 30 years. Um, you've, you've packed a lot in, in these, this short amount of time.
[00:35:23] Emma and Barry: Yeah. The only other thing I would add is that, you know, she's doing concerts, but, but you're also doing red carpets with me.
[00:35:30] And I'm your assistant for that too.
[00:35:32] She's assisting me on that. Yeah. You know, you have a short window of being a cool dad. And, uh, before, you know, before they go, whatever dad. And so, I, you know, this is unusual experience and, and yeah, you've seen more concerts. I mean, I didn't really start seeing concerts until I was 16. So, um, that's crazy. So, if I can share the experience, that's great. So yeah, she's been doing red carpets with me. Suddenly I'm doing a lot of comedians at the Chicago theater. And so, we did last year, Leanne Morgan, and then just a couple of weeks ago, we did, um...
[00:36:05] Fortune.
[00:36:05] Yeah. Fortune.
[00:36:07] Feinster. Feinster.
[00:36:08] Feinster. Yeah. I always get her name wrong. And so again, she assisted me with portraits and then, uh, we're shooting the whole stand up set. So, what else did you do?
[00:36:17] So when he was doing the portrait for her, I took some photos on my phone too.
[00:36:21] Yep. And then, well, just with your phone on this one.
[00:36:25] Yeah.
[00:36:25] And then, but then afterwards, during the stand up...
[00:36:27] I took some photos, um, with this camera, too.
[00:36:31] So now she's, now she's, going into standup comedian photography. And we went backstage afterwards, and what happened?
[00:36:38] We saw their dog. And, her wife.
[00:36:41] Well, and we also saw her, and what'd she say?
[00:36:44] And she said, I saw you shooting me.
[00:36:47] You know, again, I'm always worried, but she, it appears she thought it was cute. So.
[00:36:51] Charles: Barry, I was gonna kind of wrap up with the, you know, you'd mentioned a cool, cool dad. When I was a little bit older than Emma, my mom, I was, I was in sixth grade. My mom took me to see the Eagles as a first concert. I went to, I think I was 11 or something. And then from that point on, she would take me and my friends, we saw Pink Floyd at soldier field 1977.
[00:37:18] And, and then we, we'd go to all these concerts and, you know, I tell people this and they would say, man, you, you've got a cool mom. And I would say, yeah, she's, she's pretty cool. And so, Emma, I think you've got a cool dad. Oh, would you, would you say he's, he's pretty cool.
[00:37:36] Emma and Barry: He's all right, all right? Whose shows that you talked about, though, I mean, that's like the real Pink Floyd. That's the, the real Eagles. That's pretty crazy. Eagles are coming back. I'm going to see them in a couple weeks.
[00:37:47] Charles: Yeah. We're, uh, you know, just trying to sort out our concert schedules and stuff. And there's just so many people to see and bands and it's definitely tough to keep up on.
[00:37:58] Emma and Barry: That's what's great about Chicago, right? We, uh, we're a really good hub. Everybody comes here. And then we go sneak over to Milwaukee or Troy, which I was just at or Indianapolis. But, uh, for the most part, you don't have to go anywhere in Chicago. That's why we're here.
[00:38:13] Charles: Yeah. Everybody comes through here, so... All right, guys, have any closing thoughts?
[00:38:18] Emma and Barry: We're, we're going to keep shooting and we keep bringing her to shows if and when I can, for sure. Yeah. I mean, now that she's using a real camera. Eventually, I guess my goal is eventually I can be... Exactly and I can be your assistant.
[00:38:31] I can earn some money.
[00:38:32] You need to earn me some money. Yeah, exactly.
[00:38:34] Charles: Nice. Well, it's been great chatting with you two. And, uh, really appreciate you taking the time to do this. Yeah, we look forward to, uh, maybe seeing it at a show or something.
[00:38:44] Emma and Barry: Absolutely. Don't be a stranger. Say hi for sure.
[00:38:47] Charles: All right. Thanks, Barry. Thanks Emma.