In this episode of 'Seeing Them Live,' concert photographer Matt Carmichael shares captivating stories from his extensive career. From a memorable first concert at the Jackson 5 to wild backstage moments with Poi Dog Pondering and Mark Grace, Matt takes us through his journey. He also discusses his work with iconic venues like Metro and bands like Blind Melon, Zoe Keating, and the Rolling Stones. Find out why the Rolling Stones is the best band to photograph and how his work was featured in a Swedish postage stamp. Additionally, Matt talks about his website, RocknRoll.net where he showcases his concert photography and fascinating encounters with various artists.
This episode of Seeing Them Lives features an engaging conversation with Matt Carmichael, a seasoned live music fan and concert photographer, known for his long-term association with Poi Dog Pondering. The discussion delves into Carmichael's early concert experiences, starting with seeing the Jackson 5 at the Silver Dome in 1984. Matt shares intriguing anecdotes about the first concert he attended with his dad and reflects on the evolving context of that experience over time.
He also recounts the unexpected presence of Paula Abdul as choreographer and a juggler named Chris Bliss opening the Jackson 5 performances, adding intriguing details to his music journey. The discussion explores Carmichael's storied career, highlighting his time as the house photographer for various iconic Chicago venues and his ongoing contributions to the band Poi Dog Pondering. He narrates the captivating story of how he built and managed the band's first website in 1994, leading to a cherished relationship with its members, characterized by unique moments and extraordinary access to the band.
Stories of notable concert photographs, nurturing artist relationships, and dealing with fame punctuate the narrative, demonstrating Carmichael's passion and dedication to his craft. A substantial part of the conversation shifts to Carmichael's memorable experiences photographing famous bands like the Rolling Stones, where the planned and professional approach of the band stands out in contrast to other gigs. He shares stories about his work featured in Swedish postage stamps and meeting various musicians over the years.
He details heart-pounding moments with Mooney Suzuki and Gogo Bordello, where bands took risky performances. Additionally, Matt discusses his long-standing website, RocknRoll.net and discusses his latest project—a book compiling fascinating stories of meeting and working with iconic musicians and heroes. His work combines his love for music, photography, and personal narratives to create a rich tapestry of rock history and personal growth.
BANDS: Blind Melon, Poi Dog Pondering, Sahara Hot Nights, The Rolling Stones, Zoe Keating.
VENUES: The Vic (Chicago), Metro (Chicago), Grant Park (Chicago).
[00:00:25] Matt Carmichael: And then I got this ridiculous photo of Dag Juhlin, a couple of the guys from the Poi Dog crew, myself and Mark Grace in the shower backstage at the Vic, because it was the only place you could get like that many people together and get far enough away to take a picture of them.
[00:00:40] Charles: Today's guest is Matt Carmichael. Matt is a longtime live music fan and concert photographer. He is now largely retired from the craft, but was the house photographer for the Metro in Chicago, the Tweeter Center in Tinley Park, Illinois, and the iconic Chicago [00:01:00] Radio Station, WXRT. Matt has also been the band photographer for Poi Dog Pondering for more than 30 years. He has shot images for Billboard Magazine, Getty Images, and more. He has a couple of websites you can check out. One of 'em is rocknroll.net, where he showcases his concert photography. And the other one is meetingmyheroes.com, which is a Substack where he writes about all of the interesting people he is met over the years. Matt, welcome to Seeing Them Live.
[00:01:30] Matt Carmichael: Hey Charles. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.
[00:01:32] Charles: Yeah. We're joined also today by my co-host and producer, Doug Florzak. I say this I think with every guest I'm like, oh my God, there, there's so much to talk about.
[00:01:43] Matt Carmichael: Yeah, it, it's, it's been quite a ride.
[00:01:45] Charles: Yeah. And you, oh my goodness. I mean, well, you're concerts and then you're a concert photographer and you have all these stories, which we'll get to. But where I always kind of like to start things off, is at the very beginning, the first concert, and [00:02:00] you saw the Jackson 5 in 1984 at the Silver Dome in Pontiac, Michigan. And you were about, you said like nine or 10 years old.
[00:02:10] Matt Carmichael: Yeah. I think it was about fourth grade or so.
[00:02:12] Charles: You were going with a friend, and then your dad ended up taking you, and I was wondering, did, did your dad always have a ticket or did he have to get a ticket or how did that work?
[00:02:21] Matt Carmichael:So the tickets were actually my sister's friend and her parents could not take us. So my dad volunteered and I got to tag along as the, I guess, plus four in this case. Um, so it was my sister and her friend, and then I was the little brother in this case, and my dad was the guy driving and chaperoning.
[00:02:40] Charles: Okay. There's a few things I was reading about this. Just some of these names from the past, like Paula Abdul was the choreographer on the tour and Don King, whose name I haven't heard in such a long time as a promoter for the show. But, I guess there was 145,000 people there. And you were up in the nosebleed seats you were [00:03:00] saying
[00:03:00] Matt Carmichael: Oh yeah. So, the Silver Dome was huge. 145,000 must have been over a couple nights, but it was a big place. It's where the Detroit Lions played, and big, massive indoor and there, there aren't too many domes like that around left anymore, but they were kind of in vogue for a moment, you know, new Orleans and Houston and Pontiac for some reason, and it's interesting talking about your first concert after the fact, right? Like. Going into it as a fourth grader, I was like, oh, I like Michael Jackson. Oh, I like the Jackson 5. I'm a good Detroiter. I like my Motown sound. And I didn't have like the context around that, like about Paula Abdul or Don King or any of the other dynamics about that.
[00:03:37] And some of it is still kind of a mystery 'cause I haven't gone back into it that far, although I've memory checked a couple things. But like why was the Jackson 5 getting back together at this point? Like Thriller had just been released and this should have been a massive worldwide Michael Jackson tour.
[00:03:52] Charles: Exactly.
[00:03:53] Matt Carmichael: Why were the Jackson five mostly then playing Michael Jackson solo stuff. Like, if you look at the set list, [00:04:00] which you can do now, 'cause the internet exists and people have made these things, you can go back and see like, oh, here's exactly what they played and they closed with like Billie Jean and Beat It
[00:04:08] Charles: Yeah.
[00:04:09] Matt Carmichael: There were not all of the Jackson 5 songs in there. So that's kind of a mystery is why did that happen? And then I think the biggest mystery of all was the opening act, which I will never ever understand, which was a juggler named Chris Bliss. And I have fact checked that memory and that is true.
[00:04:27] And you can see YouTube videos of this guy and like, yeah, he is a really good juggler. But (A) Imagine who came up with the idea to have a juggler open for literally the biggest act in pop music of the world, of the time, of Michael Jackson and (B), like the chutzpah to be a juggler and walk up on stage in front of like 70,000 people and juggle.
[00:04:52] Charles: Yeah. I know that had to be a hard sell. Like, okay, guys. I've got this juggler to open up for the Jackson 5.
[00:04:58] Matt Carmichael: Yeah, right. [00:05:00] What a weird mix of things.
[00:05:02] Charles: Yeah. So, good show, was entertaining as a fourth grader, you must have enjoyed it, I would imagine.
[00:05:08] Matt Carmichael: Oh yeah. I mean, a lot of these were, you know, the biggest hits on radio at the time. But also always with that sense of nostalgia too. So it's like the pop music of the moment, but it's also grounded in Motown in Detroit, well, Pontiac, but close enough. And so, as a fourth grader, like you just eat that up, right?
[00:05:25] It's got everything you want in music and in life. And I hadn't been to a show before, so just the theatrics of it all, especially in a big stadium and kind of an arena performance. We had binoculars like and we needed them, but you know, you're still there and you're still a part of it and it's certainly a better memory and a better story than a lot of first concerts could be, right? So I think we did pretty well overall with the first. And obviously it gave me some sort of bug, 'cause I'm still going to shows today.
[00:05:55] Charles: Yeah. That's definitely a good one to start out with. I didn't know if you wanted to like [00:06:00] transition then to your best concerts. I know it's, it's hard when we ask that question. People, they have so many thoughts and, you know, narrowing it down to just one. So you, you listed three.
[00:06:11] Matt Carmichael: I did.
[00:06:11] Charles: And the reasons why. Uh, Poi Dog Pondering for their energy, Blind Melon for how good they are, their musicianship, I guess. Zoe Keating, just for like, what she can achieve as a cellist. And then the last one was the Rolling Stones for how great they are to photograph or shoot.
[00:06:31] So, I thought you your Poi Dog Pondering story is pretty interesting on a lot of levels. You get this bug, you love this band, and then you make this website, this is 1994 when websites are just coming to fruition here or being developed. And you do a lot of really innovative stuff, which must have been kind of difficult back then, like buying tickets online and stuff.
[00:06:59] Matt Carmichael:[00:07:00] Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:00] Charles: So anyway, why don't you tell the story. You saw them, you were going to school at Northwestern University, right?
[00:07:07] Matt Carmichael: Yep.
[00:07:07] Charles: And they have this Dillo Day.
[00:07:10] Matt Carmichael: So Dillo Day is, it's actually still running. It's an annual festival at Northwestern and it's kind of around finals time and it's outdoors and it's a moment to just relax from all the stress of the year ending, but the year hasn't ended yet, so you still have to kind of keep that in mind as a student.
[00:07:29] And it was a day full of fun and revelry and all the things that college kids do and music, um, and. I think it was my sophomore year, Poi Dog Pondering was the headliner. And I had never heard of this band. They were just kind of starting to get into Chicago. They'd been an Austin band in Hawaii before that.
[00:07:49] And you know, the singer and the band just kind of come out. They're 12 or 14 of them on stage. They've got percussion, they've got singers, [00:08:00] they've got strings, they've got horns. They're playing this music that can't really be categorized, certainly doesn't fit into a radio format, which is part of the problem with Poi Dog.
[00:08:09] But it was just so happy and so energetic and they were so into it and the crowd became so into it. And even though I'd never heard this band before, I'm like, I am walking directly to the CD store and picking up their albums. So, they came around again the next summer and they played Grant Park at Taste of Chicago.
[00:08:29] And they played Grant Park a few times, including once with the Chicago Symphony, or the Grant Park Symphony. And that drew an estimated 50,000 people to a free show on a weekday afternoon downtown. At the time they were huge in Chicago. They were the first act to ever sell out Ravinia, which was a kind of crowd controlled disaster, 'cause Ravinia had never had a sellout, never had any idea if they could sell out, and eventually they just had to close the gates. But I can tell Poi Dog stories all day. That's a good one. You can kind of Google that too. And so, they came back around and at this point I [00:09:00] was doing an interview with them.
[00:09:01] I was covering the show for the Campus Entertainment magazine over the summer. And so by the end of the night they played Grant Park and then they did a surprise show at Lounge Ax that I had to have the percussionist kind of sneak me into. 'cause I was still under 21. And, I met the band, I interviewed a couple of them.
[00:09:20] And so now I had sort of this body of content. I had photos from the show, I had interview, I had the story that I wrote eventually. And, I was able to kind of cobble that together into a website, which was just a thing I did at the time. But, they didn't have a website and they did have kind of an active fan base on like a listserv, but there was no place to actually see anything about the band.
[00:09:42] So I made something and eventually the band kind of saw it and. Their bassist at the time, a guy named Brent Olds who went by Astro. Astro, got into it and he was kind of into tech and he had an email account, so he was ahead of most people at that point. And he literally came and hung out in my dorm [00:10:00] room where I had a higher speed connection.
[00:10:03] Charles: Yeah, yeah. I'm reading about that. That must have been wild.
[00:10:06] Matt Carmichael: It was ridiculous. I'm like this little college kid in total fanboy mode and I've got the band literally hanging out in my dorm. And so, I got to know the band through that, I got to know their management and they're all such amazingly wonderful humans on top of the music being amazing, and their fans are by and large, great fundamentally wonderful people that I'm still very close knit friends with, people that I met around the world through this band.
[00:10:32] So there's all of that kind of community and connection and through that I continued taking photos of them. I started working with them. I was doing their website more or less. Officially, I got the official band title of Web Boy. So if you look at their early Chicago area CDs, I'm credited as what? Matt, Web Boy, Carmichael, sometimes just Web Boy. I shot a couple of their album covers for some of their live stuff, so I've stayed up with this band and as much as they have ebbed and flowed over the [00:11:00] years and the core has come and gone and come back again, they continue releasing new music. They continue playing and touring.
[00:11:06] They do a couple shows in Chicago every year and I always make sure I can get those on my calendar. And, it's all comes back to the music, but also comes back to the community around the music and the community within the music from the band themselves. And all of those things are magic and all of those things started with a show where I had no idea what I was walking into.
[00:11:26] Charles: Yeah. 'cause you had like a point and shoot camera, right? For the Grant Park thing and lounge Ax, was it or?
[00:11:31] Matt Carmichael:Yep. So I went straight from the Grant Park thing to Lounge Ax. I had I think maybe a roll or two rolls of film with me, so I didn't get to take a lot of photos and they were black and white, but I had a little Olympus point and shoot and thought I was kind of king of the world. And I wrote this piece about the band, but also the experience.
[00:11:51] And I've been reading a lot of Hunter S Thompson and I was a journalism student and I was all into the gonzo of it all and I was really excited. And the next time I went to a [00:12:00] Poi show, I bought a bunch of copies of the magazine. I was so proud of this story, and I handed it to the band and I found out later that Frank, the singer, Frank Orrell, hated it and was really mad and thought that I was just using him for access and was like totally unhappy with all of this. And I was like, oh my God, I'm such a fan. And he is like, I really don't like you.
[00:12:20] Charles: You know, Matt, I'm reading it. I'm just, I'm like, I'm not seeing this. I'm not seeing you as conniving your way into some, like, I'm seeing you as, okay, I'm the guy who started this website and I'm doing all this work and I love this band. And, anybody I would imagine who is doing a music website for one of their favorite bands, if the band wants to get involved, oh my god. So, the way your story unfolded, I was like, you seemed very open about all of it. Struck me as weird, a little weird.
[00:12:48] Matt Carmichael: Yeah, apparently that did not come through in the initial story, in the initial time I met him. And so that misunderstanding kind of hung around for a little while. And then I explained, I'm like, I've just been reading a lot of Hunter S Thompson, it was a Gonzo piece. And he was [00:13:00] like, oh, okay, that makes total sense then. I can totally respect that.
[00:13:04] And you know, he is actually told that story from stage, 'cause every now and then I get a shout out in the photo pit and he was like, this is how I met this kid. And he's still with us all these years later and he is not really a web boy anymore, 'cause now his kids are in high school. But, we're not boys either.
[00:13:20] So, it's all become kind of a sweet little running joke in the end. But there was an actual misunderstanding for a little while and I'm glad we got to clear that up. And we're still friends all these years later.
[00:13:29] Charles: That's great. 'Cause, one of the elements, I guess Hunter S. Thompson, Gonzo journalism,. it's the story behind the story is the real story. You're. Covering the band, but you're like, oh my God, I'm getting into Lounge Ax. I'm not 21. I've got this camera. And, that's super interesting. You're covering the band, but how you're going about doing all this, and then all the stuff you're doing on this website is like incredible back in 1994. It's [00:14:00] nuts. I think it's spot on. That's the story, is you and your experience, to put yourself in that situation, I think is really cool.
[00:14:10] Matt Carmichael: Yeah. And there was certainly, you know, a point points at which self-advocacy had to come into play and eventually, you know, the band fully understood what I was trying to do. I learned better how to work with the band. And at that Ravinia show, for instance, Ravinia was not used to pop acts. That's why they'd never had a sellout.
[00:14:30] They didn't really know how to deal with photographers because usually like you'd stand in the way back and take a picture of a full symphony and who cares? Like you don't need any better access than that.
[00:14:41] Charles: Yeah.
[00:14:42] Matt Carmichael: And they assigned a guy to follow me around all day. 'cause Poi did two shows that day. They did a kid show in the morning and then there was kind of a lull in the afternoon while they overfilled.
[00:14:51] And like people were like backed up all the way to the Ravenswood stop and beyond on the Metra trying to get on the train to get on the platform. 'cause there was that many [00:15:00] people trying to get Ravinia. And then they did the show at night. And this guy is like following me around. He is like, you can't go there. You can't go there, you can't go there.
[00:15:06] And finally the band is like, he is free to practice his art with the same freedom we are practicing ours. And if that's the problem, we can talk about it. And the guy was like, okay. And then he kind of backed off.
[00:15:17] And at that point I'm like, all right, all the shackles are gone. And now I've got an attitude about it. So I'm like, how do I get on the roof? How do I get in the skywalks or the catwalks? Like how do I get on stage and backstage and all of the places? 'cause I wanna get all the shots and I wanna make this look amazing. And I did and it looked awesome and it was a lot of fun to shoot that. And it was a great show and they did all these cool visuals and all the things that Poi Dog does.
[00:15:38] And because there's so many of them on stage, you can't just shoot a song and capture it all. So, I shoot the full set with the band. I am given the freedom to go anywhere and do anything. They occasionally like wink at me, but generally just ignore that I'm there and I stay outta the way, but also make sure that I'm getting all of the people on stage and [00:16:00] all of the moments on stage and all the moments where this person, this person come together and do a thing and these stolen glances between these two players while someone else is doing a solo and the shoes they're wearing and the instruments themselves. Like, it's a lot of work to shoot a Poi Dog if you're gonna do it right, but it's a lot of fun and I loved it.
[00:16:18] Charles: So at at Northwestern Matt, were you studying photography or anything like that?
[00:16:23] Matt Carmichael: I was a print journalist and I started out as a concert reviewer and a music critic and feature writer. And then I started bringing a camera to shows and then eventually I realized that I liked the photography more. I mean, I'm still a writer by trade, but for the concerts, the photography was an interesting way to capture it.
[00:16:41] And also I kind of was looking ahead and I'm like, I can shoot these bands all day every day, but how many times am I going to cover a tour by this band and have to write something different about a show that is fundamentally the same? And how many times can I say like, oh, that had a really catchy guitar lick [00:17:00] for this band versus the band that I'm covering tomorrow versus the band I'm covering tomorrow.
[00:17:03] I'm like, I don't know how I'm gonna ever do that. And mad respect to DeRogatis and Greg Kott for being able to actually do so, but I realized I was not that guy. The camera on the other hand, I could always get an interesting shot, and so I kind of transitioned my music work from writing to photography, and it worked out.
[00:17:21] Charles: Totally. Anything else you wanna mention about Poi Dog Pondering? I know you got a couple of books you've published. We could talk about that now or later. Which is that on the, um...
[00:17:32] Matt Carmichael: if you go to Rocknroll.net.
[00:17:33] Charles: Yeah, that's on that website. Yeah. Adrenaline and Light and Poi Dog Pondering: A Tale of Two Cities.
[00:17:39] Matt Carmichael: Yes. So I have two photo books of Poi Dog Pondering and I am actually working on another book. You mentioned the newsletter a little bit, Meeting My Heroes. We can talk about that a little bit more later. But one of the stories in there you just reminded me of where we were talking about how the story is often the story behind the story, and that reminded me of Third Eye [00:18:00] Blind at Metro.
[00:18:01] Charles: Yeah.
[00:18:02] Matt Carmichael: And, this was just as Third Eye Blind was starting to break. And, the Metro was a place where that often happens, where the show goes on sale and nobody knows who the band is. And by the time the show actually comes around, the singles hit, and now it's a sold out show. And now it's a sold out show that could be in a much larger venue because they've sold so many records in the meantime.
[00:18:24] So, I saw a Third Eye Blind like that. I saw Alanis Morissette like that week, she was the first person to ever be on the cover of Spin and Rolling Stone in the same month, they broke their usual competitive embargo against each other because she had just blown up that fast. So, I go to the Third Eye Blind show and I'm supposed to be doing the interview with them and then shooting the show later.
[00:18:42] And we sit down for the interview and it is a monstrous train wreck. The publicist had sent me a media kit, which back in the day, they would actually send you a folder with photocopies of articles that had been written and they'd send you a hard copy of the CD and a eight by 10 glossy and all the things, and it was out of date.
[00:18:59] [00:19:00] So, the band are introducing themselves and I see the drummer and I'm like, oh, you must be whatever I thought the drummer's name was. And they're like, no, he left the band a while ago. This is the new guy. And I'm like,
[00:19:08] Charles: Oh my God.
[00:19:09] Matt Carmichael: And, it just went downhill from there. But, I'd been there kind of all day and I was watching the soundchecks and there was an opening band who I think, where Icelandic and someone from Mayor Daley's office arrives with this amazing catering spread of like steaks and other things, like things that bands play in the metro do not get in their green room very often. And she explains that Mayor Daley's daughter is a big fan of Third Eye Blind. And so he wanted to welcome to the city with this huge steak spread.
[00:19:38] Except she got there early and she set up the spread early. And so while Third Eye Blind is doing their soundcheck, the opening band comes back from their soundcheck and it's like, dude steaks and just devours entire thing. And she's like, great. So she orders another full spread and brings more steaks. And then Third Eye Blind gets to eat all the steaks and everybody's happy.
[00:19:58] So at the end of the show, I run [00:20:00] into her again and I forget exactly how I found this out, but it turns out all of that was a lie. She was just a fan girl and just spent all this money of her own pocket in order to get close to the band. And it totally worked. And she scammed everybody. And I see her leaving with the Third Eye Blind singer, this guy Steven Jenkins, at the end of the show. And I'm like, so is it worth it? She's like, oh, it will be.
[00:20:23] I'm like, alright. And so taking all of those kind of pieces together, it wove into this fantastic story that I was, again, another clip I was really proud of, and my editor had been sitting in on the interview and was like, I could not believe you turned in that story after that interview. Like, how you found the gold in that mine?
[00:20:46] I don't know. But it was very, very well done. And the interview is still like, I, I never wanna go back and listen to the tape of that. I just, it's so cringey. And part of the cringiness was like the singer's actual ego. Like he was a massively [00:21:00] egotistical guy. And, that condescension just dripped through with every answer to every question. And that was super awkward.
[00:21:06] Charles: That's always fun.
[00:21:08] Matt Carmichael: Yes. But, the show was amazing and the audience was into it. And it was one of those things, again, like this band has come out of nowhere, nowhere, and yet 1100 people are singing every single word to all of their songs overnight.
[00:21:20] And it was, you don't get those moments very often where you hit the band at just the right time in their career arc and in just the right venue, in just the right moment. And, all of that was amazing. And Semi Charmed Kinda Life is still like one of the catchiest songs ever written. It's in my head all the time, however many, 25, 30 years later.
[00:21:37] Charles: Yeah. That's a cool tune. It's funny, that story. I'd seen the Psychedelic Furs I dunno, three, four years ago. And we're just waiting for 'em to come on there at the Aragon and, start chatting with these two women. And they did the exact same thing with the Psychedelic Furs at some show. They had this big spread with all this lunch meat and cheese and stuff, and a cart and a [00:22:00] van, and they pulled up, they said they were the caterers and they went backstage and were with the band and all this. It was a crazy story. So, I guess people do it.
[00:22:10] Doug: I think we just gave a lot of people some ideas.
[00:22:13] Charles: Oh no. Oh yes. Oh my God.
[00:22:15] Matt Carmichael: Well, we also just made sure that a lot of bands are gonna get fed well, so you know, there's a trade off.
[00:22:20]
[00:22:40] Ray and Mike: Hey everybody, it's Ray the Roadie and this is Hollywood Mike with the Rock and Roll Chicago Podcast coming to you from the Illinois Rock and Roll Museum on Route 66 in Joliet, Illinois, where once a week we are interviewing local musicians and singer songwriters and the podcast itself covers a wide range of topics.
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[00:23:10] Jessica Cantina: Hi, I'm Jessica Ann Catina. I've always loved music and surround myself with it every day. I've sung in choirs, took digital musical classes in college, and used to work in radio to further share my knowledge and. Experience with others. I created this podcast music Notes with Jess in 2019. I'm so fortunate of the listener growth and hearing back from some of the celebs I discussed in past episodes.
[00:23:42] That's why now I'm ready to expand, so let's have fun taking weekly music notes of throwbacks, modern hits and media. Thank you. Talk to you soon on music Notes with Jess.
[00:23:59] Rick: [00:24:00] What was the last really great rock and roll book you read? How about a good rock and roll documentary? Well, that's why I started the Rock Talk Studio Podcast, the place to go for recommendations of new rock and roll books and documentaries. Give me 20 minutes and the Rock Talk Studio podcast will get you caught up on the world of rock and roll books and docs from every possible angle and leave you with a no doubt decision on where to spend your time and money.
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[00:24:47] Jamie: Hi, this is Jamie James on Seeing Them Live. We all have our first concert stories, so please share them. We'd love to hear yours.
[00:24:57]
[00:25:07] Charles: So, did you want to talk about Blind Melon? They're a great band to see live, you were saying.
[00:25:14] Matt Carmichael: So, people often ask me what my favorite shows are. And despite the fact that that was also a long time ago, and I'll have to tell some newer stories before this show is over 'cause I don't want to date all of these, but I was in college and my roommate came home from Christmas with the Blind Melon record. And, nobody had any idea who this band was.
[00:25:31] And we put it on and we listened to it. And, we listened to it again and again and again. I can't say there's not a bad song on it. There's one really terrible song that I like always skip when I'm listening to it. But that is a fantastic record, almost start to finish. And, he started passing around and everybody was borrowing the CD and listening to it on the hall and, not all that long after, Blind Melon was booked to play Northwestern at like their student center.
[00:25:55] So we go and we're all excited and they're not all that many people there 'cause No Rain [00:26:00] had sort of started to hit, but not quite yet. And they're playing in a student lounge. The stage is maybe eight inches high. We are standing up against that. So, the band is a couple feet from us and not much higher than us. And the ceilings were only like 10 feet. So there's not a lot of room in there anyway.
[00:26:20] And they just played one of those hard, fast, sweaty shows that has everybody moving and everybody dancing and everybody's sweating and it's all hot and steamy in this little room. It just stands out in my memory still, of again hitting that band at the right time. But in this case, like I was a very legitimate fan of the band. I was one of the thousand people who, or however many hundred people. Probably maybe 200 people if that, who knew every word of every song and was singing along.
[00:26:47] I remember my roommate, his mind was just so melted and blown by that show that he just kind of sat outside the student center for a while on a bench by himself, and the rest of us kind of walked home. And he is sitting there like head down, just [00:27:00] like decompressing and sort of holding the CD in his hand. And this guy walks up and he's like, Blind Melon man. Dude, that band sucks. And he looks up and it's Shannon Hoon, the singer.
[00:27:10] Charles: Oh my God.
[00:27:11] Matt Carmichael: And so they all signed the CD and like he had his mind further blown, comes back just like totally on a high. And, it was just one of those nights, right? That is why we do the things we do for the music that we love.
[00:27:23] Charles: Yeah. That's a cool story. Did you ever shoot them? I know he didn't live very long, but did you ever see them again?
[00:27:31] Matt Carmichael: I saw them at Metro. They had just dropped another album and I was able to interview Shannon a little bit before the show. And then, I honestly don't know why I didn't shoot that show or why I didn't talk my way backstage to go meet the guy and just shake his hand. 'cause I like doing that with folks I've interviewed is just put the name to the face and all that.
[00:27:51] But the interview was this really sweet and hopeful thing. His daughter, Nico had just been born and he was talking about how he was clean and [00:28:00] sober and gonna be a dad, and so excited, and so excited for the new album. And so full of life.
[00:28:05] And like two weeks after the Metro show or so, you know, I'd written up the story. It had been published in a bunch of outlets, but. It was a syndicated piece. So it went in different outlets at different times. And, mere weeks after the Metro show, he was in New Orleans and fell off the wagon and I think he OD'ed and that was it.
[00:28:26] And the sad thing was, after he died, that story ran in a bunch of outlets. It was again, this hopeful story full of life. And then he's just gone. So, we ran a rare obit follow up basically just to get that in the outlets because we felt they needed to get the updated story. But, yeah, that was really, really sad. And, there's a John Popper blues traveler behind the music where he talks about one of his band mates who also went to New Orleans, and it's kind of like if I went to go live in a Burger King, like it's just a bad idea. Like if you're struggling with [00:29:00] substances, new Orleans is not the place you should ever, ever go.
[00:29:03] Charles: Yeah.
[00:29:04] Matt Carmichael: And I laugh, but like I laugh 'cause his delivery of that line was funny, but also it's true. Like it's just not a good place for people with their demons.
[00:29:14] Charles: Yeah. That's a super sad story. 'Cause somebody had made a documentary I saw a long time ago 'cause he was a big video guy. ' He took movies of everything and they turned it into some kind of a documentary after he had passed away, which was just filled with all sorts of footage of just his life, his day, day-to-day, what he did every day.
[00:29:35] Matt Carmichael: That was actually a project from the very, very famous rock and roll photographer, Danny Clinch. He was the one who actually put all that material together and turned it into the movie, and there was a Kickstarter for that a long time ago.
[00:29:45] Charles: Well, Matt, I have Zoe Keating down as one of your best concerts as well. And she's cellist. But again, this is related to your other job, right? As a research firm and you're trying to like get an angle, it's [00:30:00] called What The Future I think is? So like to make people interested in, like certain articles or aspects of things that are affecting, like in her case, her husband had, battled cancer and had passed away. Why don't you talk about that a little bit?
[00:30:16] Matt Carmichael:So, yeah. My day job, still a journalist and also a futurist, and I edit a magazine called What The Future or WTF for Short. And we talked to interesting people who have a story to tell about whatever the topic is. And we do a different topic each month. So we just dropped a issue about wellness today.
[00:30:33] Our next issue is about indulgence. Just a little bit of vice, a little bit of luxury. We just did one about the American dream. But one of the first issues we were doing was about healthcare, and I wanted to set the tone for the publication itself and talk and provide an excellent example of we will talk to anyone who has a good story about this.
[00:30:52] So. I didn't want to just talk to healthcare professionals or pharmaceutical executives or whatever. I wanted to talk to people who were impacted [00:31:00] by the healthcare system in the us which is as we know a thing. And I had followed this cellist, her name is Zoe Keating. She's a solo cellist, but she plays with herself with loops.
[00:31:13] So, as she is playing, she is also using computers and a lot of foot pedals to loop her own music. And then that becomes her accompaniment and she builds these amazing soundscapes that sound so much lusher and richer than just one person is able of doing. But she's doing it in real time in front of you. And it's amazing to watch and amazing to listen to. I've used her as a soundtrack when I am writing. It's just good creative, but also therefore, instrumental music. Wonderful stuff.
[00:31:45] But, I'd also been reading her blog. And, she had gone through this experience with her Husband who passed away from brain cancer, but through that had to deal with all of the complexity of the health system in the us and that [00:32:00] story got the attention of then Vice President Joe Biden, who had his Cancer Moonshot project and asked her to be involved in that from the kind of patient experience.
[00:32:10] So, I wanted to be able to interview her. And I gave that as an example, as just we were launching the magazine before we even had a healthcare issue. But I'm like, for instance, I would talk to a cellist about healthcare and people were like, sure you will, Matt Uhhuh. And I'm like, no, no, really, it'll work. And so, then we actually had a healthcare issue and I was like, I guess I need to do this and pay this forward and actually make good on this promise that I was gonna interview a cellist or threat depending on how you wanted to look at it.
[00:32:36] Thankfully she was on tour and kind of active at the time. She's actually got a new album coming out, I think. So, I go to this show 'cause I knew that she would, was one of the great artists who will like hang out and sign autographs after the show. So I'm like, Hey, I've been trying to get ahold of you. We've emailed a couple times, I'm trying to get this date on the calendar, but now you can actually meet me and shake my hand and sign an autograph 'cause I am a fan, but I wanna make [00:33:00] sure we can actually get this done.
[00:33:00] And she's like, sure, here's my number, let's figure it out. And so we did the interview in the end and I've been able to see her perform a couple times since then. and it's amazing to have these connections with the musicians. And I realize I'm insanely privileged in that, and I love being able to have these stories as part of my story.
[00:33:20] But, also to be able to tell their stories in a different way too. So I hope that it kind of works both ways in some of these cases that they get a good story out of it. I get a good story out of it, and everybody gets to read good the stories, and also, oh my God, the music's so good too.
[00:33:34] Charles: Yeah, I listened to a little bit of some of her recordings. It's pretty interesting. Yeah, well, that's kind of the theme with you, Matt. You turn these ideas or the things people might think are kind of long shots or crazy. You make it happen. It seems to be a theme with a lot of, , your stories and stuff, so that's really cool. You wanna talk about the Rolling Stones a little bit? And why they are so great to photograph or [00:34:00] shoot.
[00:34:00] Matt Carmichael: Sure. So, one of the questions I always get asked is, what's your favorite band to shoot? Or whatever. And, obviously it's Poi Dog Pondering is my favorite band to shoot 'cause I can do anything with them and that's amazing. But, increasingly, I mean, even back in like kind of the heyday of my doing this when I was shooting like 80 shows a year, which was a lot while also having a day job, and it's only gotten worse since then.
[00:34:19] The photographers don't get a lot of love. They don't always get the best access. They're often stuck back at the soundboard. You get to shoot sometimes a song, sometimes three songs. You don't get to use any flash. And sometimes, you know, the lighting guy is like, oh, let's just bathe everybody in red.
[00:34:35] And for anyone who remembers how dark rooms work, the light in a dark room is red because it doesn't show up on film. So, there's a lot of things working against you. And you go to show after show after show where they're like, oh, I hope you can stand on a milk crate, so you can see over the be the crowd because you're gonna be behind the crowd instead of in front of them.
[00:34:54] You just get used to like the grind of this. Sometimes you get to stay for the show and sometimes you [00:35:00] don't. Sometimes they just like literally escort you from the building, and you're on your way and sometimes that's great. Like sometimes three songs of a band is all I wanna see.
[00:35:08] That happens too. But often it's like, no, I actually kinda like this band, or they sound pretty good. I wouldn't mind hanging out. So, you guys get used to that and then you go to shoot the Rolling Stones, and I was just thinking about this the other day, and I'll tell that story in a moment.
[00:35:20] But, the infrastructure that a band, like the Rolling Stones carries with them. They are a corporation and that's always been the case. And they are true professionals. Whether or not they get along on any given day doesn't matter. They're gonna show up and they're gonna do their jobs and they're gonna do them better than anyone on Earth, which is why they're the greatest rock and roll band on Earth. Although someone would say they're just a blues band, but that's beside the point.
[00:35:46] So you show up to shoot a Rolling Stones And this happened, I don't know, in the kind of early two thousands. I get to Soldier Field and I'm working for the concert promoter at the time. And I get there early in the morning, and I'm supposed to be shooting stuff at the venue.
[00:35:59] I [00:36:00] walk in the loading dock with a couple cameras over my shoulder, but no lenses on them. I just have the bodies. And within like 35 seconds, someone is like, oh my God, who are you and what on earth are you doing here with cameras? And I'm like, I am the photographer. And my pass is upstairs. I just walked in the building and I haven't been there. And, just for the record, like there is not a Rolling Stone within 20 miles of here at the moment. They're safely back at their hotel, but whatever. So, you kind of get the idea of like, oh no, this is a serious thing and I need to take this seriously. I'm a professional. All is good.
[00:36:30] But then we get to the showtime and they come out and they're like, okay, here's how this is gonna work. We hired five of the best photographers in the world and they name drop like Mark Seliger. And, we had them help consult on how we were gonna build the stage so that you guys could photograph as well as you possibly can. And you're like, I'm sorry, you did what? That is phenomenal.
[00:36:52] They're like, so here's what's gonna happen. A, we're gonna light it white and then blue and then a little pink. The light metering has been done, so it [00:37:00] is consistent across the stage, so you'll have a pretty nice, even light everywhere you go. It is metered at 800 ASA film, at 125th of a second. So that should be perfect for you guys.
[00:37:11] And, we're gonna bring you out to this one platform and you're gonna turn your back to the stage and you're gonna feel five bursts of pyro three, and then two, you don't want to turn around before that. It'll kind of feel hot against the back of your neck. We don't want you to get burned, so just keep your back to the stage.
[00:37:27] No one's on the stage yet anyway, don't worry about it. Once you feel that fifth burst, then you'll want to turn around. The band will appear. Take all the photos you want between the first and second song. We're gonna bring up the house lights because we know you're gonna want to get the big crowd shot.
[00:37:40] So we're gonna light the crowd for you so you can get that. Then between the second and third song, we've got a platform down the stage so that you can get a wider shot of the stage, and we will take you down to that spot so you can shoot the third song from there and get these full stage shots with the skyline in the background.
[00:37:56] And, the band aren't going to play to you [00:38:00] exactly, but they know you're there. They've done this before and you'll get the things you need from them. And sure enough, as we move to the spot where we are a little back. Can get a different angle. All of the band come together in the center of the stage so you can get the group shot you need.
[00:38:19] And they don't do it for very long. It's not like they're posing, but they know that that is the moment that they should do that because that's when the photographers are there. And this band has come a long way from that. Paul Natkin, who is the legendary Chicago photographer, was the tour photographer for The Stones for a while.
[00:38:35] And he tells a story about how back in, I don't know, the seventies or maybe the early eighties, they did a set where in the second song, Mick Jagger sat on a stool and played guitar or something and played like an acoustic guitar. And, all of the newspapers ran photos of that. And the manager came up to Paul one day and is. Like, dude, why are they all running these dumb photos of him with the acoustic guitar? He never plays an [00:39:00] acoustic guitar. It's so not representative of who he is and what he does.
[00:39:03] And Paul's like, you let them shoot two songs. One of the songs, he has that guitar and then they all have to go, 'cause they have print deadlines and they have to file so they don't stick around anyway. So what do you expect them to do? And the guy's like, we'll change the set list. Thanks.
[00:39:19] Charles: Yeah.
[00:39:19] Matt Carmichael: But they learned from all of that and they became just like one of the best bands to shoot because they realized that's part of their image. And I don't know why every band doesn't do this.
[00:39:28] Charles: I know. It makes so much sense. What you're just describing is like, oh my God, this is like, why are you being, I don't wanna say difficult, but like if you plan just a little bit for the photographer, oh my god.
[00:39:41] Matt Carmichael: Yeah, and I think that has gotten a little better, to some degree, at least for all the people with just their iPhone cameras in the crowd. I think they light it better for all of them so that they get all the good social media photos that actually look okay on social, but for the actual working photographers conditions are still pretty rough.
[00:39:58] And so that's a weird [00:40:00] thing with the industry, but oh my God, shooting the Stones was amazing, and you get such great stuff out of it because they know what they're doing and they make your world better.
[00:40:08] Charles: Wow. I had no idea. That's so interesting and makes so much sense. Why don't you want to make the photographer's job as easy as possible, so, hey, I look good in these magazines or newspapers or websites or what have you.
[00:40:22] Along the same lines then, Matt, shooting bands, when you're at the Metro, you listed as your most surprising is when these bands, start climbing the lighting rack to get up into the balcony of the Metro. I'm envisioning this 'cause I've been there, many times. So, when you're witnessing that, that makes me like nervous. I've never seen that at the Metro, I've seen it, like at the Vic.
[00:40:48] Matt Carmichael: Yep.
[00:40:48] Charles: Faith No More, the lead singer, I can't remember his name now, Faith No More. Climbing like up to the loge seats, and then he just like fell off and people caught him and I'm, [00:41:00] oh my God.
[00:41:01] Matt Carmichael: It is rock and roll. Yes.
[00:41:03] Charles: Yeah. Yeah, totally.
[00:41:05] Matt Carmichael: It was the band, Mooney Suzuki at Metro had the singer climb one of the light towers and the guitarist climbed the other and they were like, still performing. And I'm like taking a lot of pictures, but also, yes, you're just nervous of the whole time of like, oh, am I about to take the last pictures of this guy ever?
[00:41:23] And, it is possible to get from the light rack at Metro, I do not recommend this, do not try this at home, these men are not trained professionals, but are just doing it anyway. But, you can actually get from there to the balcony. And so like sometimes people would like go around the balcony.
[00:41:36] Gogo Bordello did that at Subterranean too. They climbed up and then the guy went around the outside of the railing of the balcony all the way around while still singing, somehow. It's kind of nuts. Gogo Bordello also at Metro did a thing. I don't know if they still do, but they used to throw the bass drum into the crowd and then climb on the bass drum and continue playing the bass drum while they're being [00:42:00] passed over the audience's hands.
[00:42:02] I mean, Gogo Bordello, if you haven't seen them, are one of the most amazing live acts still. I actually saw them at Carnegie Hall like a year ago at a benefit, which was a little weird, but, phenomenal, phenomenal band. And yeah, the things that bands will do during a set, I was just at Les Savy Fav at the Empty Bottle.
[00:42:21] And the singer there is a very high energy dude, I will explain why I was there in a moment, but he has like a hundred foot long mic cord and he's just like wandering through the crowd. At one point he left the Empty Bottle and was like still singing on the sidewalk, but also talking to people who were just walking by. And, I guess that's just normal for him. But, I was at that show because he's my doppelganger. I tend to wear my shirt more often than he does, but I was like, I finally need to get to go meet this guy somehow.
[00:42:50] And I tried to play all of my usual cards and I hung up by where I thought the stage door was. And I tried to like talk my way backstage and I was trying to find a manager and I talked to the guy [00:43:00] at the merch table. I'm like, can anybody just like get me 30 seconds with this guy? And unlike the Rolling Stones bands at some levels have no infrastructure at all. And the guy working the door is like, I don't even know if they have a manager.
[00:43:12] There wasn't anyone guarding the backstage door at the Empty Bottle. And it just so happened that I look up during the opening band and Tim Harrington is standing there and jumping up and down and thrilled to watch the opening band from kind of the back of the crowd. And then I just followed him.
[00:43:28] And as he went backstage, I just like attached myself to him like an ambulance chaser and followed him through the crowd until he got to a little bit of opening. I was like, hey, tapped him on the shoulder. I'm like, you are my doppelganger. Could we go someplace with enough light that I could take a selfie with you?
[00:43:43] And he looks at me and he is like, yeah, all right. And found enough light and kind of, he's got a huge beard. So he covers his beard because I don't have a beard. So he covers his mouth, his beard with his hand, totally understood the assignment. I got one shot with my cell phone and then he was gone. But, he did the [00:44:00] thing. And I got the photo and I got the story and I saw the band. And the band is also high energy and amazing. And it was fun to still be doing these things at my slightly more advanced age these days.
[00:44:11] Charles: You have that on your Meeting My Heroes site?
[00:44:13] Matt Carmichael: I do. And the photo is there and there's a photo of him where you'll be like, oh yeah, I see it. You do look like that guy. I showed my kids the photo and my kids had encouraged me to actually go to the show. It was kind of late for a school night for me. But, one of my kids guessed wrong. Which one was me?
[00:44:28] Charles: Well, there must be a striking similarity, huh?
[00:44:31] Matt Carmichael: Yes, exactly.
[00:44:33] Charles: I'll have to check that out. I was thinking, Matt, we could move into the websites and stuff, but since you mentioned Mooney Suzuki, I thought we might talk about that postage stamp.
[00:44:44] Matt Carmichael: Oh yeah.
[00:44:45] Charles: With Maria Anderson. She's a singer of a Swedish band called Sahara Hot Nights. Is that right?
[00:44:52] Matt Carmichael: So, the weirdest thing that has ever happened to one of my photos, possibly besides the guy who made a fake baseball card of Debbie [00:45:00] Gibson, because I shot her at a Cubs game when she was singing the seventh and eighth stretch. That was funny. But the like most interesting single use of one of my photos, and they've been in magazines and textbooks and album covers and all kinds of places.
[00:45:13] I shot this band. They were like an opening band. I'd never heard of them. They were called the Sahara Hot Nights. They were a lot of fun. And it was at Metro and I got some cool photos and put 'em up on the internet and didn't really think of it ever again. And then I wanna say a couple years later, I got an email from the Swedish Postal Service, asking if they could license the photo. And I was like, I don't even believe this is real. This seems like, you know, a Nigerian prince sort of thing. And they did want bank account money 'cause or bank account information 'cause they were gonna wire me the payments. And like I had to Google and see like, is that actually a currency?
[00:45:47] Oh it is. It is the currency of Sweden and this is the email address for the Swedish Postal Service. So this could be real. And they offered me what seemed like a really ridiculous amount of money. And I'm like, [00:46:00] sure, absolutely. I will take that money and you can put my image on a postage stamp. Why not? And I will believe that as soon as the money clears my account. And lo and behold the money cleared my account.
[00:46:09] And they were doing a kind of history of rock and roll series, which had Elvis. And then eight or 10 Swedish bands. And they had an illustrator do etchings based on my photo and the other photos of the other bands. They turned into this like really cool stamp series and it really existed. Before the stamp actually got released, Sahara Hot Nights came back around and were playing Metro again, and I shot them again. And I met up with them and I'm like, I don't know if they even know they're gonna be on a stamp.
[00:46:38] So I don't wanna be the guy to break that to them if it's like some surprise, like, the Nobel call is coming in the middle of the night and you just don't know until it calls. So I'm like, I'm gonna have you sign an envelope, and that will make sense someday, if not today. And so they all signed this envelope and then once the stamp was released, I put the stamp on the envelope and framed it with the photo that was the original photo, [00:47:00] and that all hangs in my basement.
[00:47:01] Charles: That's a cool story.
[00:47:03] Matt Carmichael: It was indeed.
[00:47:04] Charles: So, just transitioning then, Matt, into your two websites, I'd mentioned RocknRoll.net. Is that the same original, like the website when you were back in college days?
[00:47:16] Matt Carmichael: Yeah. So, however many billions and billions of websites there are, RocknRoll.net was one of the first 5,000 sites on the web period. It makes it one of the very longest running things on the internet, which is kind of bonkers and a weird thing to say, but also I can document it and it's true.
[00:47:34] So, my website is more than 30 years old. It is my photo portfolio at the moment. I actually finally refreshed it a couple years ago and got a lot more stuff back on it. But, if you wanna check out my photos, you can do so. And the Poi Dog Pondering archive is there as well, which has 30 years of Poi Dog photos, but there are photos of all kinds of other bands, all kind of genres from venues, large and small, and bands you've heard of, and bands you probably should have heard [00:48:00] of but might not have.
[00:48:01] Charles: Yeah, and it looks like you can buy some of the images. Your contact information is on the website and somebody's interested in purchasing.
[00:48:08] Matt Carmichael: Yep. Absolutely.
[00:48:09] Charles: Maybe for a postage stamp. Who knows, right?
[00:48:12] Matt Carmichael: Maybe for a postage stamp. I've had gallery showings and all kinds of stuff, so, they're available to buy as fine art prints.
[00:48:20] Charles: Cool.
[00:48:20] Matt Carmichael: If you're local, I'll sign em too.
[00:48:22] Charles: Yeah. There's all sorts. I saw like a picture of, I think it was Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden.
[00:48:28] Matt Carmichael: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:29] Charles: Obama and Jeff Tweedy. Just all, like you said, a wide range of musicians and such. And then also, on that website were those two books I mentioned earlier, right?
[00:48:42] Matt Carmichael: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:42] Charles: Are they like, like coffee table books than Matt?
[00:48:45] Matt Carmichael: Yes exactly. And those are Poi Dog specific. But, I forget if the rock and roll general one is there. But, the book I'm actually working on at the moment, which I just launched a Kickstarter for, is the Meeting My Heroes book. And about a year or so ago, I decided it was time to [00:49:00] write down the stories you've heard me tell today and also 70 other ones.
[00:49:04] It's part memoir, it's part clip file, it's part words of advice for young people to borrow William S Burrow's phrase. And it's about how I met all of these people and all of the things I've learned from them. And, the premise is the line, you shouldn't meet your heroes, because if you do, they're gonna disappoint you.
[00:49:22] And to that, I always said, if your heroes are a disappointment, you really need different heroes. I have met all of these people, all of these different walks of life, and they've all been pretty phenomenal people with one sort of notable exception, and I tell that story too. And so I've collected all these stories and I finally wrote them down and it's 70,000 words plus all the photos that go with that from all the stories that I was shooting as well. And so I've got a Kickstarter to take that newsletter and turn it into an actual printed book. Hopefully that'll get funded and that'll be available by Christmas.
[00:49:53] Charles: Okay, so you can access the funding portion part of that at that meeting my heroes.com.
[00:49:59] Matt Carmichael:[00:50:00] Exactly. And if you don't wanna pay for it, most of the stories are up there in the newsletter form. But, if you would like a printed book to hold onto or you just wanna support the work, I would appreciate that too.
[00:50:09] Charles: Cool. Yeah, I'm on your email list. So I got, I think the latest one was Amanda Palmer,
[00:50:15] Matt Carmichael: Mm-hmm. Yes.
[00:50:16] Charles: And, I counted up your stories. At the time I counted, and this was probably before the Amanda Palmer story, like 73 different stories. So are you trying to reach 75 stories?
[00:50:27] Matt Carmichael: I wasn't trying to reach a number, but actually, by the time this airs, I will have essentially finished the newsletter. So the Amanda's Palmer story leads into one more story that kind of completes an arc. And it's not that I won't continue writing these eventually, and I just met another guy yesterday who I wanna write about, but, so there will be additional chapters eventually, but the kind of arc of the story, and there are certain distinct chapters.
[00:50:54] There's a group of stories of meeting my childhood heroes, and there's a group of stories of meeting other people's [00:51:00] heroes, like my dad's heroes and my mom's heroes, and being able to kind of make those kind of connections too. And they're all the music stories and then they're kind of the more current work stories with people I've met, like futurists and politicians and senators and other kind of people that I interviewed today, professional football trainers.
[00:51:17] And so all of these stories come together and they follow this sort of weird pattern somehow, which is also largely my story. Right? But I realized that there was a natural place to kind of bring that all to a close with a little bit of a twist at the end. And so I'm looking forward to that story being in the world and also hopefully turning this into a book that people can hold onto, 'cause I still like books.
[00:51:41] Charles: Yeah. It's a really cool concept and I read a few of them, thumbing through them, so to speak, and all of your concert photos and such on the other sites. So, I think it, will do well. Is there anything else you would like to talk about, Matt? Plug whatever, anything cooking?
[00:51:58] Matt Carmichael: Well, the [00:52:00] book is the future project at the moment, and so, I'm really looking forward to pulling that together. As I said, it's mostly largely written, so it's a little bit of an academic exercise to actually turn into a book, but I haven't done that before, although I have a book, but it's about demographics and consumer trends and might not be quite as exciting for your audience, although maybe, you know, for all those who are interested in demographics and consumer trends, I have a book about that too. But, I could sit here and tell these stories all day. I've got clearly, as you said, 75 of them right at tip of my tongue at the moment.
[00:52:29] It was fun putting that together and going back and doing the research about a lot of these things. So, thinking about the stories that you go back and you look at them from a different lens all these years later, like we were talking about at the beginning, looking back at a show that I went to 35 years ago, but from a perspective now where I can go back and see all the things around that.
[00:52:50] And so, it's been a fun adventure, spelunking back through the files and finding all the clips on the web where I can, and digging out all the [00:53:00] photos and thinking about all those memories and all those stories and being able to kind of put that all together. And I really appreciate you guys having this podcast and that this exists and that you're got all these other people telling their stories as well. I think music and storytelling go together really, really well, and it's a lot of fun to be here, and I could do this all night, so thank you for having me.
[00:53:20] Charles: Well, maybe we'll have a part two, maybe when the book comes out and do a recap.
[00:53:25] Matt Carmichael: Absolutely. I would love that.
[00:53:26] Charles: Doug, did you have a question for Matt?
[00:53:29] Doug: Just a quick aside. I know Dag Juhlin is in Poi Dog and he's a fixture on the Steve Dahl show, and I was wondering if you had any stories or interactions with him that you could share?
[00:53:40] Matt Carmichael: Oh, Dag is the best. Poi Dog just played a fundraiser, recently at Marist High School, and it was such a treat for me because the way they had the stage laid out do was kind of like right in front of me and. His monitor was facing kind of where I could hear it. So I was hearing a [00:54:00] lot of extra guitar that I don't always get to hear in the overall sound mix of the horns and the strings and percussion and the singers.
[00:54:06] And so I was, I had a very guitar forward experience with Poi Dog and I stopped him after the show and was like, oh my God, it was so great to hear everything you were doing that clearly. And I think your solo on Big Constellation was like, as good as I've ever heard it.
[00:54:21] I've been listening to this band for 30 years. I've been to a few of their shows, so it's always nice to have that extra layer at some point. But in Meeting My Heroes, one of the other people's heroes I talk about meeting was Dag's Hero. Dag is a huge Cubs fan. And we were at one of their shows, the Vic and Mark Grace comes backstage.
[00:54:40] He's at least a Cubs Hall of Famer, if not an actual baseball Hall of famer. He should be a baseball hall of famer and I should look that up. But Mark Grace is backstage. And so I got some photos of Mark signing Dag's guitar, which had a Go Cubs on it. And so it was fun to be able to see my hero's hero and interact with them.
[00:54:58] And then I got this [00:55:00] ridiculous photo of Dag Juhlin, a couple of the guys from the Poi Dog crew, myself and Mark Grace in the shower backstage at the Vic, because it was the only place you could get like that many people together and get far enough away to take a picture of them. So we're standing in the shower, which is a really weird place to be with a bunch of rock stars and a baseball star.
[00:55:17] But there I was and I was glad that that was one of the rare moments where I handed the camera to someone else and it was like, no, I wanna be in this photo too. Normally I'm the guy taking the photos of that, but every now and then I'm like, no, no, no, no. This one's with me.
[00:55:32] Doug: Nice.
[00:55:33] Charles: That's awesome.
[00:55:34] Matt Carmichael: Yep.
[00:55:35] Charles: All right, Matt. Thanks for coming on Seeing Them Live. We've enjoyed immensely all your stories and like you said, you have many more. So yeah, check out Meeting My Heroes and for more stories and to order the book or contribute some money to get the book going. That would be great. And, um, thanks again, Matt.
[00:55:55] Matt Carmichael:
Thank you guys for having me. This has been a lot of fun.